Why R1T outselling Lightning 4-1?

[SeaGeo]

IMO, Ford probably should have introduced Lightning as work truck (compelling low operating cost for commercial/fleet), an electrified Bronco as a "clean" adventure rig and an electrified Maverick for the larger lower tiered mass market. But, saddled to their old ways, they clearly can't chew gum and walk at the same time (messed up launch of both Lightning and ICE Bronco).

They, and the rest of the industry (somehow) didn't realize people wanted a Maverick. Probably listened the the "truck guys" too much in their market surveys.

Because they innovated nothing, they slapped a battery in a standard f150. Might as well be a 2015 e-golf. On top of dealers not trying cuz their employees think Joe Biden makes electric cars.

They didn't slap it in a standard f150. It's not the same frame, different axle, different in front of the cab. Cab and bed are the same, which was smart.

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[Throwdown]

They, and the rest of the industry (somehow) didn't realize people wanted a Maverick. Probably listened the the "truck guys" too much in their market surveys.


They didn't slap it in a standard f150. It's not the same frame, different axle, different in front of the cab. Cab and bed are the same, which was smart.

I never looked it up but I was told the lightening was a standard f150

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

They, and the rest of the industry (somehow) didn't realize people wanted a Maverick. Probably listened the the "truck guys" too much in their market surveys.

Look at executive leadership. They are all from the old boys club. And the heads/owners of most major dealer chains look and think just like them. It's just not that easy for legacy auto to think and act progressively in short amount of time. If RJ were to go work for any of them, he'd probably been dismissed as someone who is too young and don't know better.

They didn't slap it in a standard f150. It's not the same frame, different axle, different in front of the cab. Cab and bed are the same, which was smart.

I didn't say they literally did that. But look at prioritization of functions, features and dimensions. To the enduser, it practically IS a F-150 w/o a ICE. If inclined, a F-150 owner could slide right into a Lightning and not miss a beat. That, is clearly what they set out to do with product planning. And they assumed it would also become America's #1 selling, just like the F-150.

 

[waitingonanr1s]

The Lightning is pretty much a F-150 with electric drive. It makes a fine transition for any F-150 owner wishing to electrify. However, unsurprisingly, the demographic that buys one F-150 after another isn’t interested in electrified anything. They’ve just gotten settled on the fact that their favorite trucks are now made with AL instead of good old iron. A BEV F-150? Whoa, Nelly. Slow that pony. That's too much progress too soon. The outliers who don’t mind—and have means to stomach or skip high interest rates—have already bought or don't find it special enough to tug heart strings.

The R1T targets a different demographic and is a clean slate truck design, but is also familiar (not a shock'n'awe assault on the senses like the CT is). From the start, it is specifically designed to be an adventure lifestyle product. While Lightning, like all F-150s, starts with requirements of a work truck, then trimmed up to have various levels of creature comforts and tech one would expect of a personal vehicle.

Was racing one of the 700hp F-150's off the line at a light the other day. We rolled down windows at the next red light and chatted for a while. He was impressed that I could smoke him, lol. He definitely left that interaction more interested in EV's than when he went into it. The Lightning is going to need the range though to match the ICE ones to pull them over. Not sure where it falls, as I never considered it, but it's not an unbreakable market, assuming the dealers will actually sell them.

Some folks just aren't going to consider them until they see something that turns them on with their own eyes.

If they could refine the Lightning and get the price down it could really be break through in some of that market.

 

[Stickboy46]

The lightning is actually a really nice vehicle. It's definitely the best "work truck" of the current EVs including the cybertruck. It's too F150 for me but that's also what makes it a good work truck along with some of it's other features (have you seen how many outlets those things have??)

 

[vandy1981]

Let's see, Ford has massive distribution, a dealer on every corner, a 100 year old brand vs a startup with no distribution and scattered service centers, yet Rivian is massively outselling the Lightning? Why?

Are you offended that Ford is building any electric trucks at all?

 

[mikehmb]

Ford attempted (and failed) to differentiate the brand - they tried to carve out EV sales and create an entirely new Direct model, which fell apart when major dealer networks went into (unsurprising) revolt. Ford caved, and the results are exactly what you’d expect.

There are no oil changes or regular service intervals for EVs. There are limited powertrain repairs. The rest of the mechanicals are basically “lifetime service.” There are limited warranty issues on a truck with such enormous market presence and a power train that doesn’t - by design - break much.

As long as there aren’t any catastrophic design issues (something you really can’t depend on as a dealer) then you’re talking about a vehicle that is actually dilutive to a dealer’s operating margins over the warranty lifetime of the vehicle compared to an ICE, even with ADM of 10s of thousands.

They’re going to fight this until the end, and that end is probably in the horizon of the old dude who owns the dealership who is staring down retirement.

F*ck (all, not just ford) dealers. They suck and should die off.

 

[CrazyOne]

Most population lives in cities and more so the people able to afford 100k vehicles. Rivian is borderline too big and F150 is too big. Manoeuvring an F150 in a Trader Joe's/WholeFoods parking lot is very hard. The macho grills impair visibility and don't help. Same thing with truck ride and handling.

I don't think traditional truck buyers are buying EVs yet. I don't buy the tradesmen need a bigger bed argument though. In my experience, people who actually do the work use vans or HD trucks. The salesmen coming to give estimates use the SD trucks. I am not saying there aren't exceptions, just the usual trend I see around here.

 

[SANZC02]

Because they innovated nothing, they slapped a battery in a standard f150. Might as well be a 2015 e-golf. On top of dealers not trying cuz their employees think Joe Biden makes electric cars.

Not really true, the outside and inside look similar but the chassis is new for the EV.

 

[Rainman]

I was an early reservation holder for a Lightning. I drove 2 F150 Raptors prior to getting my R1T and loved them - I’m a fan of Ford trucks.

When the Lightning was released I found it BORING, as someone else said, blah … and that is why I own an R1T. I don’t know what will happen with the Lightning, I expected it to be a game changer for the EV market … shows what I know ?

 

[BigSkies]

Where are you getting those sales numbers from?

I haven’t followed it that closely, but I thought they were selling in roughly comparable numbers.

I know the F150 line shut down last quarter for plant upgrades, which significantly impacted numbers for that quarter.

 

[jebinc]

Let's see, Ford has massive distribution, a dealer on every corner, a 100 year old brand vs a startup with no distribution and scattered service centers, yet Rivian is massively outselling the Lightning? Why?

Because it’s fresh and better?

 

[voxel]

I wanted a Lightning and test drove one back in Jan 2023 as I was getting sick of waiting for my R1S.

Loved it. But the reason I didn't buy the Lighting was - the dealership.

They wanted a markup and had a half-dozen on the lot (the one I was interested in was a demo and had been there 9+ months). With the markup it was a terrible value on an overpriced vehicle already - Ford had jacked the price up $8K a few months earlier.

With price cuts and dealers realizing markups are gone... sales have spiked but it's too late. Folks like me have moved on.

https://electrek.co/2023/12/01/ford-f-150-lightning-breaks-monthly-sales-record-november/

 

[tculpepp]

I traded an F-150 for an R1T. I've always had a truck, and they get a pretty good amount of use. The F-150 was traded in because at 90k miles, the notorious 10spd transmission ate itself just outside of warranty and cost me $10k. I didn't trust it anymore.

I went with the R1T for two reasons, size and not being a traditional manufacturer. I wanted to downsize the truck as I didn't need a full-size anymore. Also, Ford's CEO recently explained their multi-vendor manufacturing process and how it makes change very difficult. I saw shades of my transmission debacle and chose otherwise.

The EV work truck will sell.when it has reasonable range at a $40k price point, charging infrastructure is as easy as gas, and the customers have confidence that it will be as reliable (or repairable) as their current ICE truck. Their livelihood depends on it.

 

[RNFinCA]

It is simpler than that. What makes car companies work for the last 100 years, what they invested the most in, have the most skills in, things that made their brand, are now totally irrelevant. The skills and technology going forward and 100% different.

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