Any tests done on Vampire battery drain?

[ajdelange]

I bet Rivian can significantly improve vampire drain.

I'm sure there are some improvements that can be made but given the "mission" of these vehicles don't you think they have been cognizant of this problem for a while and done as much as they could?

Early on Tesla S were using ~15 miles a day, and they made multiple improvements, eventually there was even an option where you can say don't wake up so much.

My X (2020) sucks about 12 mi/day but that's high. Most X owners don't see that much. Eyeballing off the histogram I'd say the average Tesla driver (all models) sees 8 - 9 miles per day.

What is needed is a mechanical switch on the outside of the vehicle by which the vehicle can be put into deep sleep in which state it stays until that switch is operated again. All modems (cellular, WiFi, Bluetooh...) would be turned off as would all other housekeeping systems with the exception of the one that serves that switch. Even so their would be some phantom drain i.e. the battery's inherent chemical loss of charge.

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[Greenwater]

I'm sure there are some improvements that can be made but given the "mission" of these vehicles don't you think they have been cognizant of this problem for a while and done as much as they could?


My X (2020) sucks about 12 mi/day but that's high. Most X owners don't see that much. Eyeballing off the histogram I'd say the average Tesla driver (all models) sees 8 - 9 miles per day.

What is needed is a mechanical switch on the outside of the vehicle by which the vehicle can be put into deep sleep in which state it stays until that switch is operated again. All modems (cellular, WiFi, Bluetooh...) would be turned off as would all other housekeeping systems with the exception of the one that serves that switch. Even so their would be some phantom drain i.e. the battery's inherent chemical loss of charge.

I'm just speculating but based on how they keep adding new features, and are missing basic stuff like preheating batteries I'd say they haven't come back and done refinements like battery efficiency. Really Rivian is following the experience of the early Tesla days, and that's a good thing. Awesome drivetrain, keep refining the software.

 

[Max]

Left my truck in the garage April 12 @ 92% and 260 miles. It’s been 10 days and the truck is now 56% and 160 miles.

If I am reading this right throwing 4680 Watts a day down the tube going nowhere is not saving the planet. Unless folks like @OutofSpecKyle start including vampire drain comparison in their reviews, manufacturers won't give it the priority it deserves. Imagine GM trying to sell brand new ICE with holes in the bottom of their gas tank. Owner should have the option of how much waste they are OK with for safety, convenience, ..... or whatever that energy is used for. I suspect most of it is just due to lazy and careless design. I don't drive much and this will kill the efficiency of the vehicle for me far beyond it's advertised range. If they don't fix this by the time my number is up, I will have some hard choices to make.

 

[Attesan997]

If I am reading this right throwing 4680 Watts a day down the tube going nowhere is not saving the planet. Unless folks like @OutofSpecKyle start including vampire drain comparison in their reviews, manufacturers won't give it the priority it deserves. Imagine GM trying to sell brand new ICE with holes in the bottom of their gas tank. Owner should have the option of how much waste they are OK with for safety, convenience, ..... or whatever that energy is used for. I suspect most of it is just due to lazy and careless design. I don't drive much and this will kill the efficiency of the vehicle for me far beyond it's advertised range. If they don't fix this by the time my number is up, I will have some hard choices to make.

To me this doesn't seem intentional and more of a software issue that's yet to be addressed. I have no data to back this up but the last software update had something about addressing vehicle sleep. If this level of loss is "normal" for Rivian they're going to be overwhelmed with calls and emails complaining once they start delivering to scale.

 

[Max]

To me this doesn't seem intentional and more of a software issue that's yet to be addressed. I have no data to back this up but the last software update had something about addressing vehicle sleep. If this level of loss is "normal" for Rivian they're going to be overwhelmed with calls and emails complaining once they start delivering to scale.

One of the guys on forum posted heat loss through cameras in R1T when gear guard was off. That sounds like careless design to me. I think there must have been a lot of pressure to get it out the door which I understand. Having everything perfect means never going to productions and we wouldn't want that either. I have no doubt things can be improved through OTA. I just don't know how much of it is hardware and what priority software improvement for this issue has for Rivian.

 

[Attesan997]

One of the guys on forum posted heat loss through cameras in R1T when gear guard was off. That sounds like careless design to me. I think there must have been a lot of pressure to get it out the door which I understand. Having everything perfect means never going to productions and we wouldn't want that either. I have no doubt things can be improved through OTA. I just don't know how much of it is hardware and what priority software improvement for this issue has for Rivian.

Agree I think software refinement got pushed to the back burner in favor of getting vehicles out the door. It's a bit of a shame though because it's not clear if or when an OTA would come to fix things. That's fine when you have a fleet of employees running around with your vehicles but now that's expanded to regular folks with no Rivian connection. Sooner than later someone or many someones are going to raise hell and make things much more complicated than it would be today. Today they just have to send out an email to owners to say they are aware of the problem and are working on it.

 

[Riviot]

I tested vehicle shipping! Tldr; doesn't help.

I did notice the fan (BMS?) didn't randomly kick on as much, it was slower to unlock, and the screen didn't wake as quickly as normal. So maybe this would be better tested over a longer timeframe.

24 hour difference: 3%, 4kWh, 10 Conserve miles

 

[Boudro]

I tested vehicle shipping! Tldr; doesn't help.

I did notice the fan (BMS?) didn't randomly kick on as much, it was slower to unlock, and the screen didn't wake as quickly as normal. So maybe this would be better tested over a longer timeframe.

24 hour difference: 3%, 4kWh, 10 Conserve miles

Arrr. Thanks for posting this. Watching closely as I like to hike/adventure and want to leave the truck at a trailhead for days or a week. I need to plan how much to have at trail and still make it to a charger.

 

[Forager]

4 kWh/day in losses is meaningful, that’s $260 a year. I spoke with another owner that’s experienced 8kWh overnight, or 16 kWh/day, which would be $1050. I know these aren’t inexpensive vehicles, but one of the few cost efficiencies of EVs is their low operating cost. $1050, when added to fast charging for road trips and the home charging for commuting makes this moderately more expensive to fuel than the two ICE cars it is intended to replace, combined.

Rivian will need to fix this quickly.

 

[SeaGeo]

I'm really curious what in the world is sucking down that much power. A modern laptop lives off a 100w power supply. What's averaging around 175w? 10 tiny camera modules and a couple of the computer chips in a lower power mode? That doesn't sound right.

 

[Dark-Fx]

?? This is quite common for me and a number of people I know.
I have traveled on business or for vacation for 10+ days many times. Sometimes due diligence projects have me at a remote office/location for even longer than 10 days.

Depending on your state of charge when you parked at the airport and distance from home when you return (to you car) you may find an unexpected surprise regarding your need to stop and charge your car before finally getting home (many other worse case scenarios can be applied).

Regardless of the scenario that affects you, bottom line, that I hope reasonable people can agree on is that this is extremely inefficient for a parked car and needs Rivian needs to optimize/improve (reduce) battery drain.

I was once out of the country for over 90 days in a row for work. Car started up fine when I got back. Wasn't an EV though.

 

[ajdelange]

Rivian will need to fix this quickly.

I'm afraid it is not fixable. The only solution is to allow you to put the vehicle in deep sleep and have it stay there until you wake it again (i.e. let you control the traction battery contactors). During this time it is totally unresponsive, won't be able to recharge its 12V batteries etc. Before being able to open a door etc. you will have to take it out of sleep manually.

Improvement is clearly possible if someone comes up with, for example, a lower power watchdog timer and, of course, algorithms can be changed to have it in deep sleep for a longer period of time.

Tesla has been unable to "fix" this problem in as long as they have been making cars.

I'm really curious what in the world is sucking down that much power.

The easy answer is that it all goes to the 12V battery charger. It is those batteries that support all the computers, lights, camera's, monitoring, controls and camera loads. Lead acid batteries self discharge much faster than lithium ones so perhaps some improvement can be attained by replacing the 12V batteries with lithium. Tesla is apparently going that way and Ohmu will probably offer something for Rivian.

 

[Dark-Fx]

Just looked at my truck with the thermal camera. Can confirm the cameras and door handles are warm. I've literally never enabled gear guard, so that's kind of weird. I took a couple shots of the underside of the truck and up through the wheel wells. Truck was plugged in charging last night though, so it's most likely just going to show all that stuff still having residual heat.

 

[Riviot]

I'm really curious what in the world is sucking down that much power. A modern laptop lives off a 100w power supply. What's averaging around 175w? 10 tiny camera modules and a couple of the computer chips in a lower power mode? That doesn't sound right.

Hypothesis: BMS and suspension

These are the things I noticed different with Vehicle Shipping mode. I never heard that "random" fan in the front kick on at any point. When I got in the vehicle, I noticed it level out a bit even though I was already in lowest ride height. Perhaps that compressor runs randomly to keep it level? ??‍

Just looked at my truck with the thermal camera. Can confirm the cameras and door handles are warm.

Would you mind leaving it sit for 24 hours in Vehicle Shipping and scanning it with your FLIR?

 

[Dark-Fx]

Hypothesis: BMS and suspension

These are the things I noticed different with Vehicle Shipping mode. I never heard that "random" fan in the front kick on at any point. When I got in the vehicle, I noticed it level out a bit even though I was already in lowest ride height. Perhaps that compressor runs randomly to keep it level? ??‍


Would you mind leaving it sit for 24 hours in Vehicle Shipping and scanning it with your FLIR?

I put it into shipping, tire change, and car wash mode. Luckily I am home sick today so I can actually let the truck sit for a day.

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