GM adopts Tesla's NACS standard! Munro begs Rivian to switch

[COdogman]

Those that aren’t certified aren’t authorized by Apple to be used with Apple devices.

Yet they are for sale pretty much everywhere.

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[Zoidz]

Do you think Ford and GM are idiots?

Well, now that I think hard about it, hmmmm..... yeah, maybe.....

 

[SASSquatch]

Buffalo NY can manufacture like 25k stalls/yr.

I have more faith in Tesla making functioning Superchargers than all the rest making CCS.

Just look at the data

supercharge.info
fastcharger.info

CCS was never expanding at a pace that could keep up with CCS automobile sales, if every automobile was to rely on public DCFC.

But, the US government is investing billions in building out a charging network. The CCS lobby has already got their hands in that.

The 17K of Tesla Super Chargers will be chump change compared to what is being invested in CCS.

 

[DuoRivians]

I called it a specification, but it will become an open standard.

What you quoted means absolutely something that you still do not understand. NACS is not the same thing as the Tesla Supercharger network. NACS is already used by EVGo. You can have a vehicle equipped with a NACS charging port and yet have no access to the Tesla Supercharger network. You can’t simply drive up to a Tesla charging stall, plug the NACS charging handle into a NACS charging port and initiate the charging session. Do you comprehend this? Your Make/model must be authorized by Tesla to use the Tesla Supercharger network. However, your make/mode can have a NACS charging port without any authorization by Tesla because NACS is now an open specification (soon to be an open standard) for anyone to use.

EVgo with NACS plug will charge any car that can accept it and provides simple payment. EVgo isn’t telling cars where their NACS plug receiver needs to be either.

Tesla Supercharger with NACS plug will not charge any car. Right now, as a result it is not an open standard here. If/when Tesla super chargers enable anyone to charge with simple payment method, eg could even mean downloading the Tesla app, then NACS could be an open standard here.

 

[Autolycus]

In theory, Tesla should spin off the Supercharger business to a subsidiary and isolate it from Tesla Motors, akin to Google and Alphabet. Along with the split, transfer the IP related to the port, charging circuitry, and software API. This would help eliminate any anti-competitive behavior with the charging network.

They'd probably have to do more than just spin it into a subsidiary. They'd probably have to divest from any controlling ownership and give up control of the board, allowing other auto manufacturers equal opportunity at board seats.

 

[Craigins]

However, your make/mode can have a NACS charging port without any authorization by Tesla because NACS is now an open specification (soon to be an open standard) for anyone to use.

This is not blanket truth. I'm sure Tesla has patents surrounding using AC and DC on the same pins of a connector for charging electric vehicles.

Since they are patents, they aren't available for anyone to use. Tesla has a flimsy webpage "legal agreement" that I posted above. For a company like Rivian, you'd be risking your entire company on the whim of someone who is incredibly unpredictable and a legal document on a website.

 

[rbr19870445]

Do you think Ford and GM are idiots?

yes. Why GM is killing off the Bolt is beyond me.

 

[Grabs10]

I think everyone is getting excited about the Tesla Super Charging network and what you all aren't considering is that Tesla is already struggling to meet demand of their EXISTING network for Tesla vehicles.

Tesla is delivering 422,000 vehicles a quarter (last quarter). There are roughly 2.65M Teslas on the road all competing for about 17,000 chargers.

What do you think is going to happen if you flood those chargers with other brands?

There is too much worldwide momentum (double the number world wide of CCS vs NACS) for CCS. In the US there are plans to install tens of thousands of CCS chargers.

We need both networks, and we need compatibility across both to meet demand. There will never be a single standard.

With a tesla I rarely compete for the 17,000 dc fast chargers…. I charge at home or destination level 2’s most of my time. Most times I use Tesla Superchargers it’s mid journey on the way to a destination and they are mostly empty and honestly wish I would see more of the stalls being used.

I do understand that that in big cities that public fast chargers can get crowded as the lack of 120 volt outlets in every overnight parking stall. But if ever parking stall or many had a 120 volt outlet then the DC fast chargers for long distance travelers wouldn’t be so packed for those that need to use them.

We are investing in the wrong infrastructure by investing in DC fast charging IMO. That type of charging needs to be a huge profit center for those that run the charger IMO

 

[DuoRivians]

This is 100% wrong.

Rivian DC chargers use the CCS1 standard, yet they don’t allow any non-Rivian’s EVs to charge. It’s a walled-garden charging network with a standard-based CCS1 adapter.

We’ve already covered this in a previous post. Look it up

 

[izgoy]

Yet they are for sale pretty much everywhere.

Fake airpids are also for sale everywhere. What does it prove?

 

[SASSquatch]

yes. Why GM is killing off the Bolt is beyond me.

Because they are too cheap to make money off of. That's why.

Why do you think Saturn/GM killed off the EV1?

 

[Craigins]

They'd probably have to do more than just spin it into a subsidiary. They'd probably have to divest from any controlling ownership and give up control of the board, allowing other auto manufacturers equal opportunity at board seats.

I'd personally just be happy with a firewall between the companies so that Elon wouldn't be able to make changes to the "standard" in a way that benefits Tesla vehicles while causing large burdens for other manufacturers.

 

[izgoy]

We’ve already covered this in a previous post. Look it up

So, stop repeating your fallacy. Logic is not one of your strengths.

Just because you want Tesla to automatically open their charging network to anyone who uses the open-specification NACS, doesn’t mean that they have to. They are not compelled to do so because you can’t tell the difference between a charging network and a charging standard.

NACS charging ports can be used with EVGo charging cabinets without an adapter. Tesla plays no role in this relationship. Tesla does exercise control when the Tesla charging network is used.

 

[DuoRivians]

So, stop repeating your fallacy.

Omg, this guy is a ?

 

[SASSquatch]

With a tesla I rarely compete for the 17,000 dc fast chargers…. I charge at home or destination level 2’s most of my time. Most times I use Tesla Superchargers it’s mid journey on the way to a destination and they are mostly empty and honestly wish I would see more of the stalls being used.

I do understand that that in big cities that public fast chargers can get crowded as the lack of 120 volt outlets in every overnight parking stall. But if ever parking stall or many had a 120 volt outlet then the DC fast chargers for long distance travelers wouldn’t be so packed for those that need to use them.

We are investing in the wrong infrastructure by investing in DC fast charging IMO. That type of charging needs to be a huge profit center for those that run the charger IMO

Somebody pay this man!

You hit the nail on the head.

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