Dual motor real life efficiency?

[Electrified Outdoors]

I don't think that's an apples-apples comparison. If you dig into the EPA testing docs, DM is about 5% more efficient than QM in conserve. The range shown on the screen in conserve is not the range that the EPA test data produces in conserve.

Agree. DM certainly has the ability to switch automatically to AWD which is something QM should have as the top powertrain option. It would be nice to be able to get the efficiency benefits while slso having the power/traction available on demand vs having to switch drive modes.

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[R.I.P.]

Agree. DM certainly has the ability to switch automatically to AWD which is something QM should have as the top powertrain option. It would be nice to be able to get the efficiency benefits while slso having the power/traction available on demand vs having to switch drive modes.

This.

Going from QM to DM I love the feel of the improved power/traction management in AP. Two wheel drive when appropriate, but mash the peddle and it instantly engages 4x4. The feel is good, solid.

Oh, and isn't the "top powertrain" now the DM-P/max? Rivian seems to think so. The current QM is sunsetting. Rivian will make them until they have used up the supply of Bosch motors.
?

 

[R1Tom]

Agree. DM certainly has the ability to switch automatically to AWD which is something QM should have as the top powertrain option. It would be nice to be able to get the efficiency benefits while slso having the power/traction available on demand vs having to switch drive modes.

It should be an easy implementation. Toggle button..."Auto Control Rear Disconnect"...then "Auto" or "Manual".

Then when in Conserve with Auto On, then start with wrong wheel drive(aka FWD..or WWD)...when throttle exceeds some threshold, rev match rear motors to axle speeds, trigger dog clutch to close, apply power. After reduced throttle for a predetermined time....trigger dog clutch back to open and resume wrong wheel drive.

Then if in all purpose, and Auto, if vehicle is at highway speeds, maybe 60 or up, for over say 20 seconds, at a fairly consistent throttle, trigger dog clutch to open..etc...

Only thing in way seems to me is possibly those clutches don't have the cycle capability and would become liabilities.

I personally stopped using conserve, not because of tires, but because unless I need every last bit of range, I don't see the payback in the minimal gain of efficiency for the pain of dealing with a failed clutch. Regardless of warranty. Still a pain at this time.

 

[Electrified Outdoors]

This.

Going from QM to DM I love the feel of the improved power/traction management in AP. Two wheel drive when appropriate, but mash the peddle and it instantly engages 4x4. The feel is good, solid.

Oh, and isn't the "top powertrain" now the DM-P/max? Rivian seems to think so. The current QM is sunsetting. Rivian will make them until they have used up the supply of Bosch motors.
?

its anyone's guess at this point. DMP+Max is certainly the most expensive ? current offering. If I had to speculate I would say Rivian is working on their own quad motor system.

https://rivian.com/support/article/...Quad-Motor-AWD-Max-pack-R1T-from-configurator

Note: We plan to add a Quad-Motor with additional capability in the future that will pair with the Max pack. We will release pricing for this new variant closer to launch.

 

[Electrified Outdoors]

Only thing in way seems to me is possibly those clutches don't have the cycle capability and would become liabilities.

I personally stopped using conserve, not because of tires, but because unless I need every last bit of range, I don't see the payback in the minimal gain of efficiency for the pain of dealing with a failed clutch. Regardless of warranty. Still a pain at this time.

Agree, its the clutches IMO. I have seen one or two posts of them failing catastrophically. Same I stay in AP unless I am on a road trip and I need every last bit of range. The EPA rating of the QM is based on AP anyway.

 

[usulio]

The DM auto-engage system is cool, but I don't see the need for them to add something similar in QM. The range on QM is already great, esp around town, and the Conserve mode gain is minimal. Only worth it for occasional highway cruising.

 

[CruxOp]

Even easier, just let me switch between ap and conserve while cruise or driver + are engaged. It's really annoying to have to come up to highway speed, fumble for the button, and then engage cruise. Then when leaving the highway turn off driver assist, fumble for button again, etc.

 

[Proxy]

Drove the exact same route leaving together for a real world Dual vs. Quad comparison. Not the best comparison since they are very different but it at least it is some data. Recommend cold tire pressures set. Unfortunately the R1T had a warmer battery. SoCal weather on the freeway with moderate traffic. The two vehicles and the results:
2022 R1T Quad motor large pack 20” OEM AT tires RUS spare Converse Auto height
2023 R1S Dual motor performance max pack 21” OEM AS tires All purpose Auto height

46.4 miles 41mph 1 hour 8 minutes
Quad 2.43 mi./kWh 19.1 kWh 16% used
Dual 2.63 mi./kWh 17.8 kWh 13% used

I chose the modes to compare what I use for road trips instead of both in all purpose.

 

[Epicloop]

Quad 2.43 mi./kWh 19.1 kWh 16% used
Dual 2.63 mi./kWh 17.8 kWh 13% used

Since the QM with 21" is 19% more efficient than with 20" this does not bode well for the DM-MP
327mi(21")/274mi(20")=1.195
2.43 x 1.195=2.9m/kwh on 21"

 

[Proxy]

Keep in mind the EPA numbers are in AP mode. The QM R1T was in conserve mode. Also the DM R1S was brand new and new tires are less efficient for a little while. Another advantage for the QM is that the R1T is slightly more efficient than the R1S.

 

[DaveA]

It should be an easy implementation. Toggle button..."Auto Control Rear Disconnect"...then "Auto" or "Manual".

Then when in Conserve with Auto On, then start with wrong wheel drive(aka FWD..or WWD)...when throttle exceeds some threshold, rev match rear motors to axle speeds, trigger dog clutch to close, apply power. After reduced throttle for a predetermined time....trigger dog clutch back to open and resume wrong wheel drive.

Then if in all purpose, and Auto, if vehicle is at highway speeds, maybe 60 or up, for over say 20 seconds, at a fairly consistent throttle, trigger dog clutch to open..etc...

Only thing in way seems to me is possibly those clutches don't have the cycle capability and would become liabilities.

I personally stopped using conserve, not because of tires, but because unless I need every last bit of range, I don't see the payback in the minimal gain of efficiency for the pain of dealing with a failed clutch. Regardless of warranty. Still a pain at this time.

The lower warranty on the DM is probably due to that clutch disengagement lifespan....but its still 150k miles, so maybe nothing to worry about. Time will tell.

 

[Proxy]

Another observation is the difference in motor temps. Freeway driving in 70F temps the DM runs about 30F above ambient and the QM runs 70F above. Lots of waste heat. I wonder if the max packs have better inverters that run cooler (and more efficient).

 

[mtberman]

Here is a data point for a dual motor on 21s. Obv it will be a bit lower at high speeds but so far the real world high speed penalty has not been too bad.

 

[Zorg]

Here is a data point for a dual motor on 21s. Obv it will be a bit lower at high speeds but so far the real world high speed penalty has not been too bad.

Sweet. Go back and drive 100 miles at 75.

 

[s4wrxttcs]

This might be a minority opinion, but conserve mode kinda sucks on a QM.

It has nothing to do with its efficiency as that's great, but the way it handles is significantly different than all-purpose mode. Plus its extremely hard on tires.

I try to only use it while on the freeway on a road trip, but obviously there will be times that I forget.

For my use case I think I'd prefer a DM setup over the QM

I'm still waiting and seeing but I believe

Average efficiency will be better
There won't be a tock noise on acceleration and deceleration -> Mine has a pretty noticeable one that Rivian is claiming is within spec.
The motors won't make as much noise around 40mph

Most of my off-road tends to be pretty easy stuff that a DM should have no issue with. Now I still want to try Rally mode as I haven't had any opportunity to really test it.

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