Comma AI / OpenPilot Autopilot Progress on R1!

[CrazyOne]

And I haven't had one single Waymo trip where it didn't fuck up. It's drunk at best. Not a benchmark for greatness.

It's all relative. It hasn't caused caused any fatalities so far and that's not something we can say about others.

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[CTRedCanyon]

Don't get me wrong, I still regularly use them, but then, everyone says I'm kind of stupid as far as self driving and Tesla AP goes. Waymos mostly do mildly drunk things, but I did have it go the wrong way in a round-about once.

Also a homeless guy attacked mine once, and it flipped out and stopped.

That's pretty crazy. Good thing FSD/Comma AI come with an accelerator pedal to force it to go any time you want to override it.

 

[PBRAZ]

It doesn't affect the warranty, it's a man-in-the middle plug and play device. It intercepts the factory camera/radar etc. and sends alternative control signals to the steering wheel and accelerator to control driving. As soon as it's unplugged, everything is right back to stock.

I'm truly fascinated by this and glad to see a 3rd party working on improving the current functionality. I am curious though...they use terms like "hack" and "man in the middle attack" which, outside of this use case, would normally be considered illegal. Not sure if you know, but has comma.ai had the blessing and/or ire of any the car manufactures they are compatible with? Someone else posted that Rivian may not be happy about this...I wonder if they would go as far as suing them. Elon has been pretty lax about vehicle mods. I'm hoping RJ is as well.

 

[CTRedCanyon]

I'm truly fascinated by this and glad to see a 3rd party working on improving the current functionality. I am curious though...they use terms like "hack" and "man in the middle attack" which, outside of this use case, would normally be considered illegal. Not sure if you know, but has comma.ai had the blessing and/or ire of any the car manufactures they are compatible with? Someone else posted that Rivian may not be happy about this...I wonder if they would go as far as suing them. Elon has been pretty lax about vehicle mods. I'm hoping RJ is as well.

I'm not sure they even could outside of hardware changes for future models. The Comma just reads and replicates the signals coming from the factory ADAS and sends that to the vehicle. No manufacturer has blocked it via an update yet that I am aware of. Hopefully Rivian will understand the value this adds to gen 1 vehicles and won't try to do that.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

It's all relative. It hasn't caused caused any fatalities so far and that's not something we can say about others.

That's not because it's necessarily better but because it only operates in low speed city areas that are carefully mapped and controlled whereas other systems operate more or less everywhere.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

I'm truly fascinated by this and glad to see a 3rd party working on improving the current functionality. I am curious though...they use terms like "hack" and "man in the middle attack" which, outside of this use case, would normally be considered illegal. Not sure if you know, but has comma.ai had the blessing and/or ire of any the car manufactures they are compatible with? Someone else posted that Rivian may not be happy about this...I wonder if they would go as far as suing them. Elon has been pretty lax about vehicle mods. I'm hoping RJ is as well.

It's illegal when someone else does it to you, but when you do it to your own property, it's not illegal. This device is breaking Rivian's system to add functionality Rivian doesn't have. Because it is "hacking" into Rivian's devices Rivian has no liability for it's operation. I'm not sure Rivian has any legal standing to do anything about this just as they couldn't stop me from removing all my airbags or seats and putting in lawn chairs.

Those aren't good ideas either, but Rivian wouldn't be on the hook if I died in a crash because I was sitting in a lawn chair instead of the Rivian seat. I'd imagine it's the same thing here.

 

[CTRedCanyon]

That's not because it's necessarily better but because it only operates in low speed city areas that are carefully mapped and controlled whereas other systems operate more or less everywhere.

Tesla and Comma AI are the only ones I know of that work anywhere, even on completely unmarked paths and roads with no lines. Both really impressive.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

Tesla and Comma AI are the only ones I know of that work anywhere, even on completely unmarked paths and roads with no lines. Both really impressive.

Personally, I don't trust any of these systems, but I do have to say I am impressed with the Gen 2 Rivian's driver+ so I am warming to the idea. The lane centering is good enough I don't worry about it and with the new lane-changing logic it changes lanes more or less the way I would and seems safe doing so.

I'm not sure I would be comfortable ceding more control over the vehicle operations beyond what the Gen 2 provides, but as I said I am impressed with the increased level of assistance so I could be won over by an even more advanced system.

 

[CTRedCanyon]

Personally, I don't trust any of these systems, but I do have to say I am impressed with the Gen 2 Rivian's driver+ so I am warming to the idea. The lane centering is good enough I don't worry about it and with the new lane-changing logic it changes lanes more or less the way I would and seems safe doing so. I'm not sure I would be comfortable ceding more control over the vehicle operations beyond what the Gen 2 provides, but as I said I am impressed with the increased level of assistance so I could be won over by an even more advanced system.

I have a Model S with FSD. I'd suggest you stop by and test drive a Tesla or rent one with FSD just to see what's out there... Rivians Driver+ isn't bad but it's rudimentary compared to the better systems out there like Tesla. Night and day.

 

[Riviot]

Am I the only one getting Skynet vibes here??? OTA AI updates... what's the security protocol like? As is I'm suspicious of Rivian's and would prefer an ability to air gap the LTE connection.

 

[SwampNut]

they use terms like "hack" and "man in the middle attack" which, outside of this use case, would normally be considered illegal.

No, those acts themselves are not intrinsically illegal. I perform all of that on my own networks and for customers. It's the intent of fraud or illegal usage of the data that would be criminal.

what's the security protocol like?

SSL, like your bank.

 

[MannyMan]

If I'd still owned my Rivian, I'd have definitely buy the harness and use it! I've used CommaAI before and it's great! Good job!

 

[CrazyOne]

That's not because it's necessarily better but because it only operates in low speed city areas that are carefully mapped and controlled whereas other systems operate more or less everywhere.

Low speed city areas are the hardest problem. I am not a google fan, but it's hard to deny that LIDAR makes.a system better. The only reason it isn't used by everyone is cost and it has come down significantly.

A few years back, Elon was trash talking about LIDAR and RJ said that Rivian will have LIDAR. That's when I put a deposit on Rivian. I understand that prices have come down much slower and Rivian had to abandon it, but LIDAR is making it to production vehicles now.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

Low speed city areas are the hardest problem. I am not a google fan, but it's hard to deny that LIDAR makes.a system better. The only reason it isn't used by everyone is cost and it has come down significantly.

A few years back, Elon was trash talking about LIDAR and RJ said that Rivian will have LIDAR. That's when I put a deposit on Rivian. I understand that prices have come down much slower and Rivian had to abandon it, but LIDAR is making it to production vehicles now.

I wasn’t really speaking to LIDAR or its effectiveness. I don’t know anywhere near enough about autonomous vehicles to speak intelligently to that. I was just saying that the reason there have been no fatalities from Waymo is because they aren’t operating in conditions that make fatalities likely.

 

[CrazyOne]

I wasn’t really speaking to LIDAR or its effectiveness. I don’t know anywhere near enough about autonomous vehicles to speak intelligently to that. I was just saying that the reason there have been no fatalities from Waymo is because they aren’t operating in conditions that make fatalities likely.

I asked Bing chat

Accident statistics show notable differences between urban (city and suburban) areas and rural (remote freeway) areas:

Urban Areas:
Urban areas tend to have a higher number of accidents due to the density of traffic and intersections. However, these accidents are often less severe compared to rural areas.
In 2022, 59% of crash deaths occurred in urban areas1.
Rural Areas:
Rural areas, including remote freeways, have fewer accidents overall but a higher rate of fatalities. This is due to higher speeds, longer emergency response times, and less frequent use of seat belts.
In 2022, 41% of crash deaths occurred in rural areas1.

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