800v charging capability, when?

[emoore]

Solid state isn’t happening soon. Tech is still not perfected, and mass production is still much further out.

800v capability for a large battery pack, like Rivian’s, can make a big difference. For example, the Silverado EV can add 80kwh of charge (from 10% SoC) in about 20 minutes.

I'd prefer better thermals than 800V. ability to charge at 200 Kw up until 90% would be a game changer.

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[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

China may have solid state before everyone else, but I don’t see these taking off any time soon. Tech isn’t sound yet, and mass production is still further out. For the next 5-10 years, I think some version of lithium or sodium ion batteries will dominate.

China’s state of the art is 1MW charging speeds. In 2-3 years, I’m sure this will become more perfected and cheaper.

Which is why I have a tiny investment in Amprius (silicon anode). But, thus far, they are more focused on govt/mil contracts and eVTOL, which means it's not sexy enough for the broader audience and the stock is constantly getting pissed on.

GM, Hyundai/Kia, Lucid and others in the U.S. are already at 800v.

Yes, but not something they tout in marketing. It's product advantage, if you can call it that, that most consumers are blind to. And I can see why... 10 minutes off of a 45 minute session isn't a big deal (for packs as big as ours).

While I get not all Superchargers are at high speed yet, v4 Superchargers can now do 325kw.

And there are very few V4s. Supercharger expansion and pace of upgrade has also been infamously and drastically pulled back. That outlook is likely not going to improve if Tesla is facing its greatest sales decline.

Looking at mood of the entire global landscape, conditions in the US and what priorities Rivian now face... I just don't think they feel as much impetus to jump to 800V as much as you do. Even with 400V, they have a lot of R2 reservations to tell them that consumers don't care.

 

[DuoRivians]

Which is why I have a tiny investment in Amprius (silicon anode). But, thus far, they are more focused on govt/mil contracts and eVTOL, which means it's not sexy enough for the broader audience and the stock is constantly getting pissed on.


Yes, but not something they tout in marketing. It's product advantage, if you can call it that, that most consumers are blind to. And I can see why... 10 minutes off of a 45 minute session isn't a big deal.



And there are very few V4s. Supercharger expansion and pace of upgrade has also been infamously and drastically pulled back. That outlook is likely not going to improve if Tesla is facing its greatest sales decline.

Looking at mood of the entire global landscape as well as that of the US and what priorities Rivian now face, I just don't see they feel as much impetus to jump to 800V as much as you do. Even with 400V, they have a lot of R2 reservations to tell them that it's not that important.

I’ll be blunt. If Rivian doesn’t adopt 800v soon, Rivian’s market opportunity size will be localized to the U.S. only. No one outside of the U.S. will really want it. China’s, Korea’s, and even European EVs will be so much better and cheaper, especially by 2028–which is when Rivian may start exporting.

 

[DuoRivians]

I'd prefer better thermals than 800V. ability to charge at 200 Kw up until 90% would be a game changer.

800v charging capability will mean less heat while charging too, because of less current (amp) needs. So better thermals as a result.

 

[iansriv]

I'm not in any particular rush. I don't mind the 30 minutes it takes to charge 20-80% in the R1. I get to stretch my legs and ponder my place on this earth. I'm sure faster charging and better battery tech will be here soon enough. Until then, I'm cool with waiting a bit.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

I’ll be blunt. If Rivian doesn’t adopt 800v soon, Rivian’s market opportunity size will be localized to the U.S. only. No one outside of the U.S. will really want it. China’s, Korea’s, and even European EVs will be so much better and cheaper, especially by 2028–which is when Rivian may start exporting.

You are not wrong. However, I work in advertising. The average consumer doesn't ask, "is it 800V or 400V?". They don't even know what that means. Instead, they ask "how far can I go on a charge? and how much does the car cost?"

It's what the majority of the market is willing to accept that matters to an OEMs balance sheets.

 

[DuoRivians]

You are not wrong. However, I work in advertising. The average consumer doesn't ask, "is it 800V or 400V?". They don't even know what that means. Instead, they ask "how far can I go on a charge? and how much does the car cost?"

Disagree. People care about how fast they can charge and not wait. It’s a big reason why gas owners refuse to go EV.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

Disagree. People care about how fast they can charge and not wait. It’s a big reason why gas owners refuse to go EV.

This is now a pointless 1-way discussion. All ad market research are wrong then. They should all hire you. Good day.

 

[DuoRivians]

This is now a pointless 1-way discussion. All ad market research are wrong then. They should all hire you. Good day.

If you think I should consider you as an “authority” on advertising, you should wait forever. Idiot

 

[krockett]

400v vs 800v is not a deal breaker for me, rather far down the list of what I look for in an EV at the moment.

 

[DuoRivians]

400v vs 800v is not a deal breaker for me, rather far down the list of what I look for in an EV at the moment.

Which is why I’m asking *when* will Rivian have 800v? It won’t matter today currently

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

If you think I should consider you as an “authority” on advertising, you should wait forever. Idiot

No, I wouldn't be so idiotic to consider myself an authority on anything. Neither should you, for calling anyone who dares to disagree with you an idiot.

I look for evidence. I work on adverting for an OEM. I have seen the marketing research. Range and price are top-of-mind for consumers. I've yet to see a single Hyundai, KIA or GM/Chevy ad that touts "800V" as a talking point. And if the topic was that important to them, based on their research, they would have been motivated to put "800V" as the foremost messaging.

More evidence. Prior to gen 2 refresh, 800V was rumored. Then, by launch, Rivian/RJ said it wasn't the right time to go that far. Has gen 2 sales suffered solely because of it? If anything, demand has suffered because of high purchase and leasing cost. Plus, how many hand-wringing threads have we seen from gen 1 owners pondering upgrade? How many of them ultimately said, "nah, it doesn't have 800V"? None.

You aren't an authority. You're just another opinion like all other opinions. And one who can't handle different views without blowing a gasket. And that is evident in your reply.

 

[DuoRivians]

No, I wouldn't be so idiotic to consider myself an authority on anything. Neither should you, for calling anyone who dares to disagree with you an idiot.

I work on adverting for an OEM. I have seen the marketing research. Range and price are top-of-mind for consumers. I've yet to see a single Hyundai, KIA or GM/Chevy ad that touts "800V" as a talking point. And if the topic was that important to them, based on their research, they would have been motivated to put "800V" as the foremost messaging.

You aren't an authority. You're just another opinion like all other opinions. And one who can't handle different views without blowing a gasket.

The term idiot here is in reference to your trying to say: “I’m an authority because I work in advertising”.

If you want to share your opinion, that’s fine. And you could have done that without saying “I work in advertising”

Also, if you work in advertising, you should try to anticipate where the market is going. Consumers rarely know where the future will be; they only answer based on the now or the past. So, in 2027, if you ask consumers then, higher charging speeds may be very important. And if Rivian doesn’t have a product by then, it’ll be too late. This isn’t software that can be put together quickly, but requires years of planning ahead

 

[SANZC02]

I think a point much less discussed in the 400 vs 800 volt discussion is the efficiency side.

Most people talk about faster charging which is a plus but you also have cost savings with smaller cable requirements. Additionally running at higher voltage makes the vehicle more efficient to run. The 800 volt architecture is one of the reason Lucid vehicles are so efficient in comparison to others.

Even though there would not currently be a lot of 800 volt charging stations today, the other things would pay dividends now moving to 800 volts.

 

[HaveBlue]

800V has little to do with the battery. All the cells get charged at 5V. It's the surrounding hardware that benefits starting with the charge station. Rivian packs max out 400V (450V pack actually)stations at 225kw (500A) but thermal limits have been a topic. The RAN stations can go to 920V but interestingly only at 325A. Could be a cabinet limitation of some sort.

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