Adapting to and adopting new battery technologies.

[Singletracker]

New battery technologies are promising significantly higher energy density, longer range, and way faster charging. Is Rivian able to easily adapt these new batteries to their platform, as they become available? Will they be somewhat plug and play OR require a whole system redesign? Could a better battery be retrofitted, as an upgrade say, to an existing Rivian R1 battery pack, without major changes?

Well within the normal life span of a current R1, unbelievable changes are going to happen with these technologies. <300 miles range and 30-60 minute charge times may end up being laughable. And, yes. I understand all this will require a massive upgrade to the current charging infrastructure, but I suspect that will happen, if there is a need.

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[KiloV]

I wouldn't count on a retrofit upgrade to your R1T/S. More than likely your upgrade path will be to trade in your current (or future?) R1 for a new model with the shiny new battery/charging tech.

For what it's worth, Rivian has already announced the new Standard Pack with LFP battery chemistry. And they've already announced that they will be designing and building a new 800V architecture, probably for first use in the R2 models that will be built in GA.

 

[MNLightning]

I’m hopeful that retrofitting will be an affordable option. It does seem like the Chinese have a large pipeline of next level batteries 12-24 months out

 

[emoore]

I give it a less than 0.001% chance of upgrading the battery. ICE cars aren’t able to easily upgrade engines so I don’t see EVs being able to upgrade batteries.

 

[Singletracker]

I think EV’s are much simpler and more modulized, if that is a word, as compared to ICE vehicles, that share very little in common and are far more mechanically complex. Whether retrofitting will ever be an option, I’m not so sure. However, I was thinking more about how easily, or not, Rivian could quickly switch to a different type of battery in the R1’s, using the same basic platform, if it offered significant performance advantages. Come to think of it, they may already be doing that with the future two motor R1’s.

Some US companies and especially the Chinese, are coming up with some pretty promising battery tech. Could Rivian drop these newer batteries right into their existing packs, with minor modifications, and have a dramatically better vehicle?

 

[emoore]

I still don’t think it will happen. EVs might be simpler but capitalism is capitalism.

 

[MNLightning]

I give it a less than 0.001% chance of upgrading the battery. ICE cars aren’t able to easily upgrade engines so I don’t see EVs being able to upgrade batteries.

Perhaps factory upgrades, but with time the aftermarket may fill the void if the demand is there.

I’m already looking at options to make mine faster. Hopefully someone like Unplugged Performance will create some go faster options for is

 

[zefram47]

I highly doubt you'll see an upgraded pack available for already-purchased trucks. But I'd almost guarantee you'll see battery changes during the lifetime of the R1 platform, much like Tesla has just done with the Model Y. Some have pointed out that space-wise there doesn't seem to be enough room for the 12th battery module for the Max Pack in the R1T frame. If that's really the case, we may see a small volumetric energy density enhancement on that version so that it only needs 11 modules, but still gets 180 kWh. There's also suspicion we may see the Max Pack being the first to receive an 800V pack.

 

[Singletracker]

Are we on the cusp of some truly transformative battery tech? When/if this technology becomes available, everybody will want an EV. I’m wondering if this type of battery would be a pretty much plug and play solution for a company like Rivian. I mean, what’s not to like about 600 miles range and 10%-80% charging in 5 minutes? See ya, ICEV’s. I’d have to see it to believe it, but the Chinese seem to be way ahead of everybody on EV development. Of course, the current charging infrastructure would have to be upgraded to be compatible with these super fast charging batteries, but I think the Chinese are already on to that technology, as well. Could today’s EV’s be dinosaurs in 2030?

https://www.catl.com/en/solution/passengerEV/

 

[Atlrivian]

On my test drive, as part of the spiel "Joe" told me the expected battery life was 10 years. After that, Rivian already has plans / agreements for second and third lives of the cells. Unless they plan on junking the car, there must be a plan to be able to swap packs in the future.

 

[Singletracker]

On my test drive, as part of the spiel "Joe" told me the expected battery life was 10 years. After that, Rivian already has plans / agreements for second and third lives of the cells. Unless they plan on junking the car, there must be a plan to be able to swap packs in the future.

Very good point ? And, in 10 years, is that replacement battery going to be with 10 year old battery tech or with something new?

 

[Craigins]

I don't see it happening.

They shouldn't waste effort redeveloping software for the existing platform for a handful of retrofits that they'd see. The NRE cost would be enormous.

They don't even have the current battery conditiong software solid yet.

It isn't like swapping the AAA batteries in your remote for the long lasting Energizer lithium.

 

[p3ck]

I give it a less than 0.001% chance of upgrading the battery. ICE cars aren’t able to easily upgrade engines so I don’t see EVs being able to upgrade batteries.

While I agree with this mostly.. You do have car enthusiasts who replace motors, upgrade motors, replace with a crate motor, etc...

So it's not unrealistic to think there could be kits....

 

[DJG]

The world has operated for a long time based on people buying the newest and greatest, using it, then selling it to people who don't have the budget for the newest and greatest. This hand me down system works great and makes everyone happy. Nothing about EV's will be any different.

 

[mkg3]

Very good point ? And, in 10 years, is that replacement battery going to be with 10 year old battery tech or with something new?

I think you are thinking about the problem like an ICE vehicle.

EVs are essentially laptops with wheels. Just because there's a new CPU or battery composition that can be made into the same form factor, doesn't mean that by replacing it with new, equates to enhanced capabilities.

There are other subsystems designed to work with the existing architecture and is designed for them. Sort of like putting premium gas in an engine that's designed to run on regular octane.

So in most simplistic view, there will be impedance to limit throughput or not being able to take advantage of new component capabilities because the other subsystems were never designed to do so. By the time you change all the. subsystems required, cost is such that you can simply buy a new EV and have all the updated components.

This fundamental shift in this mindset shift is the primary reason to take advantage of batteries being a part of structural rigidity design for Model Y with 4680 battery. By the time the batteries need to be replaced, replace the vehicle. Meanwhile, costs less to make and lighter for the same structural integrity.

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