Bi-Directional Charging

[Polar]

The primary advantage that’s not mentioned in the above posts is that with V2G/V2H it is a two way power transfer - you don’t get that with a 240 plug. And for those of us with rooftop solar, that is the distinct advantage of a V2 system.

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[Polar]

It’s simple to look at a Ford Lightning forum and look at the real costs people have been quoted for the Ford system. Almost no one goes through with the install when evaluating that choice against just using the onboard inverter. "LOL"

It’s also because Ford decided to partner almost exclusively with SunRun… basically locking any competitive bids out of contention.

 

[zipzag]

Would a cheap option be to integrate a Ecoflow, Bluetti, or other into the mix somehow? You could run a 240V from the external battery to a generator plug in/transfer switch, or just simply use all the outlets on the unit itself. This external battery could then be charged from the 110V plug on the Rivian. Yes, you would have more losses, but could be viable for someone with extreme TOU prices and not huge huge electricity needs from the battery.

You could perhaps charge the Bluetti etc from the existing 120V inverter. As long as average draw is less than a kilowatt the system would only be limited by vehicle battery energy.

I''m sure a few people here are doing something like this.

It’s also because Ford decided to partner almost exclusively with SunRun… basically locking any competitive bids out of contention.

Wasn't Rivian talking about partnering with enphase?

 

[Polar]

Wasn't Rivian talking about partnering with enphase?

Enphase is a manufacturer not an installer (SunRun), two totally different things that don’t compare at all.

So if Rivian partnered with Enphase that would be for the hardware itself and not the installation, which is how SunRun is causing issues on the Ford side.

I have followed this very closely for the last year and a half, and I’ve never once seen it mentioned of Rivian partnering with anyone. So no.

 

[bentsauce]

Thanks for the detailed answer. I have an older Solaredge system and will investigate possible upgrades once (if) Rivian enables bi-directional charging.

Same with Solaredge

 

[Deacon]

I haven't bought an R1T yet due to lack of 240V inverter.

The setup used for Lightning, Cybertruck etc is not EV specific. Its simply using an extension cord to connect the vehicle inverter 240V receptacle to a standard generator transfer panel.

I use this one, but there are simpler connections.

https://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/Reliance-Controls-EGD-Q510KIT/p13512.html

You don't need V2H for a few outages a year. You just need a 240V inverter in the vehicle and a simple generator connection on your main panel.

The point of V2H is to arbitrage electricity prices.

V2H is the future, but its expensive today with no major added benefit for 95% of potential users.

So you are saying I can connect a 240V inverter to my R1T, then connect the inverter to a transfer switch. Does the 240V inverter connect to the truck via the 12V outlet or some other method? Would love to see more details on this setup - not real familiar with 240V inverters.

 

[SparkyR1t]

So you are saying I can connect a 240V inverter to my R1T, then connect the inverter to a transfer switch. Does the 240V inverter connect to the truck via the 12V outlet or some other method? Would love to see more details on this setup - not real familiar with 240V inverters.

In very simple terms you are correct. But need Rivian to supply firmware to allow their vehicle to output HV DC. Most likely could use existing CCS charging connector. Assumes all circuitry is in place in the vehicle to monitor the DC amperage and that there is proper fusing in case of a fault condition. A lot needs to be developed and field tested to connect the Rivian HV battery to a home inverter

 

[Deacon]

Thanks. Would love to be able to do that now - sounds like a simple solution.

 

[SparkyR1t]

Thanks. Would love to be able to do that now - sounds like a simple solution.

If we had Rivian support we could do it but I do not believe they will engineer a solution until industry agrees upon a single standard like the finally agreed upon NACS for basic charging.

 

[RivianRunner]

Fords implementation of V2H is very expensive and complex to install. I would like to see Rivian be able to implement something for V2H. We have two Rivians and it would be super useful to be able to tap that energy to keep lights on and food from spoiling during a power outage.

Rivian should just copy what Tesla did with V2H on the Cybertruck.

 

[RivianRunner]

So what I am saying is that until bi-directional chargers are available, you can't do V2H with any vehicle. Rivian is not making bi-directional chargers.

At some point in the future, WHEN bi-directional chargers become available, and WHEN you get one properly installed in your home, IF Rivian can't use it at that point THEN you could say that we're waiting on Rivian. But until then, all sorts of companies have been promising bi-directional chargers for years and no one has yet delivered one. THAT is the current hold-up.

Rivian already makes uni-directional charging units, are you saying there is something preventing them from making bi-directional charging units? Tesla made one for Cybertruck.

 

[RivianRunner]

If we had Rivian support we could do it but I do not believe they will engineer a solution until industry agrees upon a single standard like the finally agreed upon NACS for basic charging.

The NACS already supports bi-directional charging. It's incorporated into the standard.

 

[VSG]

Rivian should just copy what Tesla did with V2H on the Cybertruck.

Which is, not implement V2H? If you think the Cybertruck supports V2H, please cite a primary source that confirms this. I can find no evidence that this is true.

Rivian already makes uni-directional charging units, are you saying there is something preventing them from making bi-directional charging units? Tesla made one for Cybertruck.

I never said anything about Rivian making bi-directional charging units. Clearly they don't want to make a proprietary solution like Ford did, they want all the the major charger companies who announced and promised standards-compliant bi-directional chargers two years ago to bring their products to market. Rivian has done the work on its end to implement V2H in the vehicle, but there are two ends to a charging cable and the missing piece right now is bi-directional chargers that can be purchased and installed in customer homes. They're just not available yet.

https://enphase.com/ev-chargers/bidirectional - now says available in 2025
https://wallbox.com/en_catalog/quasar-2-bidirectional-ev-charger - no release date listed
https://investors.solaredge.com/new...laredge-unveils-new-bi-directional-dc-coupled - second half of 2024 perhaps, but they haven't updated their timeline in almost a year
https://www.solarpowerworldonline.c...l-ev-chargers-to-finally-materialize-in-2024/ - general information

If you think there are standards-based bi-directional chargers available, then cite your source.

The NACS already supports bi-directional charging. It's incorporated into the standard.

No, it's not in the NACS standard. While it's possible to add it, and while there is nothing that I know of that would prevent that from happening, it is certainly not in the NACS standard yet. Again, if you think it is, please cite the appropriate standards document.

 

[Jdcorbitt3]

I want to go directly from a 400VDC solar array to a small (10KWH) 400VDC backup battery, and my 400VDC Rivian battery. Then there is no loss converting or inverting. That all needs to be bidirectional. Then from 400VDC invert to 240VAC for the house. A 20KW inverter would then require 6ga wiring as opposed to my current 00 wiring from a 48VDC battery. This would be more efficient when charging the Rivian from solar. Most inverters also act as battery chargers and could go from 240VAC to 400VDC during TOU, or lack of solar energy.
I suspect the Tesla Power Wall and Ennphase will provide that solution eventually. Tesla could just tap off their 400VDC directly to a NACS with a DC handshake.

 

[Dark-Fx]

Which is, not implement V2H? If you think the Cybertruck supports V2H, please cite a primary source that confirms this. I can find no evidence that this is true.

The Cybertruck's V2H setup really only supports being used as a backup power source, it can't load shift to avoid pulling power off the grid when electricity is expensive. But really this is primarily what people want to use their vehicles for, so it's better than nothing.

Tesla's marketing on it's capability is clear as mud.

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