Bi-Directional Charging

[SANZC02]

Not sure about VSG, but I consider what Ford released to be V2H. I did see that some people were reporting issues with it though. Does anyone know if the bugs were worked out and Ford's V2H is operational?

I think it is operational but the standards are not completed so it must be a custom setup and not standards based. That would mean you would be locked into the ford hardware and most EVs probably would not create the ability to communicate with it.

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[zipzag]

If you lived in a hurricane prone area you would understand. Whole house generator will cost $5000+. You also have to have a large propane tank and when power is out you could spend $100/day on propane to run the generator. Comparing the V2H to a whole house generator - V2H is a better option. It is not uncommon for us to be out of power for 5-10 days after a hurricane.

You don't need V2H for a few outages a year. You just need a 240V inverter in the vehicle and a simple generator connection on your main panel.

The point of V2H is to arbitrage electricity prices.

V2H is the future, but its expensive today with no major added benefit for 95% of potential users.

 

[Phatman113]

You don't need V2H for a few outages a year. You just need a 240V inverter in the vehicle and a simple generator connection on your main panel.

The point of V2H is to arbitrage electricity prices.

V2H is the future, but its expensive today with no major added benefit for 95% of potential users.

But we don't have a 240v inverter, do you have one hooked up, can you show your setup?

 

[zipzag]

But we don't have a 240v inverter, do you have one hooked up, can you show your setup?

I haven't bought an R1T yet due to lack of 240V inverter.

The setup used for Lightning, Cybertruck etc is not EV specific. Its simply using an extension cord to connect the vehicle inverter 240V receptacle to a standard generator transfer panel.

I use this one, but there are simpler connections.

https://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/Reliance-Controls-EGD-Q510KIT/p13512.html

 

[jjswan33]

I haven't bought an R1T yet due to lack of 240V inverter.

The setup used for Lightning, Cybertruck etc is not EV specific. Its simply using an extension cord to connect the vehicle inverter 240V receptacle to a standard generator transfer panel.

I use this one, but there are simpler connections.

https://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/Reliance-Controls-EGD-Q510KIT/p13512.html

I fail to see how this is the 'cheaper' option.

You pay $789 for this transfer switch, install by a qualified electrician is probably $1-2k? More probably if it requires a grid disconnect on your panel.

Then you still need to buy an EV charger for $500-700 for a good one and then more charges from an electrician depending on the difficulty of the install.

Bottom line you are talking $1300 in equipment for either the V2H setup or a combo transfer switch and L2 charger. Then you have to deal with the expense to install them, I don't see why the V2H setup would inherently require higher install expenses but of course every home is different.

 

[Phatman113]

I haven't bought an R1T yet due to lack of 240V inverter.

The setup used for Lightning, Cybertruck etc is not EV specific. Its simply using an extension cord to connect the vehicle inverter 240V receptacle to a standard generator transfer panel.

I use this one, but there are simpler connections.

https://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/Reliance-Controls-EGD-Q510KIT/p13512.html

Yeah, I know how the panel works, it seemed like you were saying there was something we could do right now and the missing part is the inverter, so I thought you had a solution.

 

[zipzag]

I fail to see how this is the 'cheaper' option.

You pay $789 for this transfer switch, install by a qualified electrician is probably $1-2k? More probably if it requires a grid disconnect on your panel.

Then you still need to buy an EV charger for $500-700 for a good one and then more charges from an electrician depending on the difficulty of the install.

Bottom line you are talking $1300 in equipment for either the V2H setup or a combo transfer switch and L2 charger. Then you have to deal with the expense to install them, I don't see why the V2H setup would inherently require higher install expenses but of course every home is different.

No electrician. Already have a EV wall connector. The panel was perhaps $400 pre covid.

I simply want to replace my portable generators with an EV. Many millions of people already have a manual generator transfer switch on their homes. I assume that most nicer homes in Hurricane areas have either a manual connection or a ful house system. But even with a Generac whole house generator installed I would still want the option of using the EV battery.

 

[zipzag]

Yeah, I know how the panel works, it seemed like you were saying there was something we could do right now and the missing part is the inverter, so I thought you had a solution.

Anyone willing to directly connect an inverter to the 400V battery is an idiot and would not be a good source of information.

 

[Phatman113]

Anyone willing to directly connect an inverter to the 400V battery is an idiot and would not be a good source of information.

...

That's not what I asked, but ok. Carry on.

 

[Rivian Head]

No electrician. Already have a EV wall connector. The panel was perhaps $400 pre covid.

I simply want to replace my portable generators with an EV. Many millions of people already have a manual generator transfer switch on their homes. I assume that most nicer homes in Hurricane areas have either a manual connection or a ful house system. But even with a Generac whole house generator installed I would still want the option of using the EV battery.

I am with you. Built a house with a generator transfer switch. Will be nice to plug an EV instead of a generator. Rivian is behind Tesla, Ford, and even Fisker in some areas. Doubt they will upgrade anytime soon with their eyes set on pure survival mode with R2.

 

[jjswan33]

No electrician. Already have a EV wall connector. The panel was perhaps $400 pre covid.

I simply want to replace my portable generators with an EV. Many millions of people already have a manual generator transfer switch on their homes. I assume that most nicer homes in Hurricane areas have either a manual connection or a ful house system. But even with a Generac whole house generator installed I would still want the option of using the EV battery.

Ok I can agree that if you already have a 10 circuit 240V transfer switch and an L2 charger then upgrading to a V2H capable charger would be much more expensive rather than just plugging into a 240V out on an EV with an existing system.

But several people keep on saying that the V2H system is too expensive today but for the folks starting from scratch my math (based on $1300 for the Ford Bi-Directional charger) compared to installing a L2 and a transfer switch is probably a wash and a real whole home V2H is obviously more capable.

For the record I am part way with you, I have a 110V 4 circuit transfer switch which is all I need for a short power outage with my current EV fleet. In fact I haven't had to use it in the two years since I installed it.

 

[zipzag]

Ok I can agree that if you already have a 10 circuit 240V transfer switch and an L2 charger then upgrading to a V2H capable charger would be much more expensive rather than just plugging into a 240V out on an EV with an existing system.

But several people keep on saying that the V2H system is too expensive today but for the folks starting from scratch my math (based on $1300 for the Ford Bi-Directional charger) compared to installing a L2 and a transfer switch is probably a wash and a real whole home V2H is obviously more capable.

For the record I am part way with you, I have a 110V 4 circuit transfer switch which is all I need for a short power outage with my current EV fleet. In fact I haven't had to use it in the two years since I installed it.

For Us, It’ll Cost $18K to Power a House With Our Ford F-150 Lightning

Watch How Ford Lightning's Intelligent Backup Power System Works In A Real Home

 

[jjswan33]

For Us, It’ll Cost $18K to Power a House With Our Ford F-150 Lightning

Watch How Ford Lightning's Intelligent Backup Power System Works In A Real Home

LOL yeah... it cost $18k because they also need a full panel upgrade.

I am sure I could find an article or quote where someone was told $10k to install a basic EV charger. Believe it or not, its not as black and white as you think, for many the V2H might be the better choice.

 

[zipzag]

LOL yeah... it cost $18k because they also need a full panel upgrade.

I am sure I could find an article or quote where someone was told $10k to install a basic EV charger. Believe it or not, its not as black and white as you think, for many the V2H might be the better choice.

I gave the second link with Tom's cost of about $9K. "LOL"

Its simple to look at a Ford Lightning forum and look at the real costs people have been quoted for the Ford system. Almost no one goes through with the install when evaluating that choice against just using the onboard inverter. "LOL"

 

[HyperionMark]

Would a cheap option be to integrate a Ecoflow, Bluetti, or other into the mix somehow? You could run a 240V from the external battery to a generator plug in/transfer switch, or just simply use all the outlets on the unit itself. This external battery could then be charged from the 110V plug on the Rivian. Yes, you would have more losses, but could be viable for someone with extreme TOU prices and not huge huge electricity needs from the battery.

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