Experience shopping for an EV9 vs R1S - Update

[White Shadow]

I haven’t looked at EV9 specs but I imagine the 0 to 60 acceleration is nowhere near an R1. Performance matters and is also worth a premium to many.

0-60 in 3 seconds is virtually meaningless to me. I'd trade a 3-second 0-60 time for an additional 100 miles of range with a 0-60 in 6 seconds in a heartbeat, all day every day. Why? Because I'd find the extra range a thousand times more useful than neck-breaking hard acceleration. As long as my vehicle has enough power to get through traffic easily, then I'm a happy camper. I don't need or want a stoplight dragster. Give me more range (and efficiency) instead, please.

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[moosehead]

If I somehow upgraded my wife from a Benz to a Kia, even if that’s what she wanted, it would be one helluva divorce.

 

[White Shadow]

I was offered $2k under MSRP for a local EV9 GT-line. There are plenty available and we are past the dealer markup phase.

Wow...that didn't take long. I'm shocked they are so quickly discouting them already!

 

[Zoidz]

0-60 in 3 seconds is virtually meaningless to me. I'd trade a 3-second 0-60 time for an additional 100 miles of range with a 0-60 in 6 seconds in a heartbeat, all day every day. Why? Because I'd find the extra range a thousand times more useful than neck-breaking hard acceleration. As long as my vehicle has enough power to get through traffic easily, then I'm a happy camper. I don't need or want a stoplight dragster. Give me more range (and efficiency) instead, please.

You already got it - Dual Motor.

 

[Hillbilly]

0-60 in 3 seconds is virtually meaningless to me. I'd trade a 3-second 0-60 time for an additional 100 miles of range with a 0-60 in 6 seconds in a heartbeat, all day every day. Why? Because I'd find the extra range a thousand times more useful than neck-breaking hard acceleration. As long as my vehicle has enough power to get through traffic easily, then I'm a happy camper. I don't need or want a stoplight dragster. Give me more range (and efficiency) instead, please.

That's a simplistic way of looking at acceleration. 0-60 in three seconds has been a godsend for those of us who have to navigate certain turns onto roadways that are heavy with traffic.

The ability to see a gap and shoot it confidently and safely in all kinds of traffic is far more important to me than the extra range when the current range is enough for my daily commute.

 

[Fmc]

J

I've reached out to my guide with no response yet.

out of my own curiosity I just emailed cs and they responded that early trade in values can be done. And they are trying to get it into the purchase process. Frustrating that your guide has not responded.

 

[White Shadow]

You already got it - Dual Motor.

Not really. Dual Motor is closer, but give me even more range in exchange for some acceleration.

 

[Ric G]

....why not just keep the EQS? Is there something your wife doesn't like about it, or just bored with it? What are you really gaining on any trade?

 

[White Shadow]

That's a simplistic way of looking at acceleration. 0-60 in three seconds has been a godsend for those of us who have to navigate certain turns onto roadways that are heavy with traffic.

The ability to see a gap and shoot it confidently and safely in all kinds of traffic is far more important to me than the extra range when the current range is enough for my daily commute.

Sorry, completely disagree. My Audi is capable of that same kind of acceleration and I literally never once in my life needed it out on the road. Not once. My Audi is modified and I have the ability to change the power output very quickly and easily. I can run the car with about 300 hp and have more power than I'll ever need to squirt effortlessly through trafffic or take advantage of shooting a gap also effortlessly. The cool thing about my Audi is that I when I run it on one of the base maps (which dials back the turbo boost), the car is just as efficient as it was bone stock. So it's truly the best of both worlds.

Unfortunately, it doesn't seem possible for EVs so far to have that same advantage. Sure, you can drive an EV for more efficiency, but you're limited by the motors. That's why I'm saying that I'd rather trade off more efficient motors for extended range over having blistering accelration that I'll never use or need.

 

[manitou202]

J


out of my own curiosity I just emailed cs and they responded that early trade in values can be done. And they are trying to get it into the purchase process. Frustrating that your guide has not responded.

Response from my guide:

"Since our offers are only good for 45 days, we don't have a way to provide an estimate until you start the purchase process, which would require you to place a deposit on a new order and confirm your configuration."

So no clear way to get an estimate without starting the buying process.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

Response from my guide:

"Since our offers are only good for 45 days, we don't have a way to provide an estimate until you start the purchase process, which would require you to place a deposit on a new order and confirm your configuration."

So no clear way to get an estimate without starting the buying process.

Wow, 45 days is an eternity! This sounds like an excuse on Rivian's part not to change when they'll make the offer.

The Carvana offer on my Tacoma is good for 2 weeks, so I may not get what they offered when (now...if) we finally pick up the R1T, but I know what ballpark it'll be. And it didn't cost me anything to get that quote. Nor the one from KBB, nor CarMax (both of which triggered a deluge of offers from dealers across the region).

 

[WorldComposting]

First you are right they should be making the trade in process as easy as can be. But I think acting like you get nothing for a tax discount on a trade-in is throwing the numbers off a bit. If you could get above 70,000 from Rivian it would lower the overall cost.

Also has the Kia dealer confirmed the value? I have gone through Hyundai a few times and they have consistently lowered the value of trade in vehicles when doing their "inspection" after an initial just VIN lookup. They have also added in other fees at the end which I thought were included in the pricing.

I guess what I'm saying is while Rivian can/should improve dealerships are just as bad and until you see the contract with the pricing you really don't know what you are getting. Also make sure you double check that contract as I've had multiple ripped up when they added fees or services. My favorite was when I leased a Ford Focus Electric and they had a added charge for a service contract which only included oil changes.

 

[Hillbilly]

Sorry, completely disagree. My Audi is capable of that same kind of acceleration and I literally never once in my life needed it out on the road. Not once. My Audi is modified and I have the ability to change the power output very quickly and easily. I can run the car with about 300 hp and have more power than I'll ever need to squirt effortlessly through trafffic or take advantage of shooting a gap also effortlessly. The cool thing about my Audi is that I when I run it on one of the base maps (which dials back the turbo boost), the car is just as efficient as it was bone stock. So it's truly the best of both worlds.

Unfortunately, it doesn't seem possible for EVs so far to have that same advantage. Sure, you can drive an EV for more efficiency, but you're limited by the motors. That's why I'm saying that I'd rather trade off more efficient motors for extended range over having blistering accelration that I'll never use or need.

That doesn't carry weight with me. I had a tuned heavily modified manual 335i coupe that was no slouch either. The rivian is simply much more capable in the ways I just mentioned. I'd rather have had my bmw for track days. Rivian for daily driving.

 

[Perplexed]

This situation won't apply to everyone, but I want to highlight one of the big challenges Rivian faces versus the competition with their current sales model.

We are looking to trade-in our Mercedes SUV and have narrowed down our search to the Kia EV9 or the Rivian R1S. On paper, an entry level R1S looks to be similar in price to the EV9, but the reality is a much different story.

Here are some of the details so far:

Kia EV9 GT-line
Price $77,395 (fully loaded)

Rivian R1S Ideal Spec (dual motor, standard+ pack, Limestone, 22" wheels, Ocean Coast)
Price: $85,250

Difference = $7,855

At first the difference in price isn't huge, and I would 100% buy the R1S over the EV9 for an $8k difference. However the gap gets a lot bigger quickly. Here is what the numbers look like when I factor in sales tax, tax credit, trade-in value, and discounts. The are approximate numbers.

Kia EV9
OEM Discount: $3750
Trade-in: $75,000
Sales Tax (9.03%): MSPR $77,395 - Discount $3750 - Trade-in $75,000 = $0 sales tax
Colorado Tax Credit (applies to $80k MSRP or less): $5000
Final EV9 Price: $68,645

Rivian R1S
OEM Discount: $0
Trade-in (through Rivian): Unknown from Rivian, must place $1000 deposit to get trade-in quote
Trade-in third party (Best so far is Carvana): $72,000
Sales Tax (9.03): MSRP $85,250 - Discount $0 - Trade-in (assuming third party trade-in) $0 = $7698
Colorado Tax Credit: $0
Final R1S Price: $95,948 (assumes trading in vehicle to Carvana with no sales tax credit, and $3000 less for trade-in)

Difference: $27,303

A couple of considerations. I don't know what the trade-in offer will be from Rivian, and that could have a big impact especially on the sales tax credit. They really need a way to get a trade-in quote without paying $1000 deposit. Unless I'm willing to take a risk on the $1000, I have to assume I will get a low ball offer from Rivian and will need to sell the car third party.

I could remove several options from the R1S to get the MSRP under $80k which would give me the $5000 Colorado tax credit. In that situation the final difference drops to $16,306.

Rivian does offer lease rates that are very competitive compared to Kia's lease rates, so that is still an option and will likely be our path if we go with the R1S. If I lease I get access to the $7500 federal tax credit (from both Rivian or Kia) but then I lose the sales tax credit. So if I buy out the lease I need to pay 9.03% sales tax on the buyout price.

The direct to consumer model has a lot of advantages, and so does standard pricing versus negotiating with a dealership. But having the ability to get trade-in quotes, and some small room for negotiation has a lot of benefits as well. I really want the R1S but my wife likes both the cars for different reasons. It's going to be a tough sell at the moment to justify the difference in price.

Traded my Palisade with purchase of Rivian - the autotrader value I was seeing came up at $39-$42k.
Rivian credit was $37
I would say that is excellent, given that (here in Ontario, Canada) I dont have to go through the whole second-hand car selling process (which involved paying tax, paperwork etc etc).

 

[Rivianready]

I was going to do a trade in too until I got Rivian’s offer. I had a 2022 Volvo XC60 B5 FWD Momentum and the difference between them and CarMax was $4500.

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