Ford/Tesla Deal: Access to Superchargers, adapter coming, future EVs will have NACS (Tesla) port

[camaroz1985]

NACS "North_American_Charging_Standard_Technical_Specification"
* 1000V -- There is a 1000V version.
* 900A -- Looks like they tested 900A on a the V2 non-liquid could handle but I don't see anything for the v3 liquid cooled cable (link: 2019 Tesla patents new liquid-cooled charging connector)

P(kW) = I(A) × V(V) / 1000

https://tesla-cdn.thron.com/static/HXVNIC_North_American_Charging_Standard_Technical_Specification_TS-0023666_HFTPKZ.pdf?xseo=&response-content-disposition=inline;filename="North-American-Charging-Standard-Technical-Specification-TS-0023666.pdf

The inlet (car side) isn't liquid cooled, the charger most certainly is.

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[Longreach]

…
If SAE can make a better CCS plug - I’d love to use it. I just hate crappy products and services. Rivian is awesome, CCS is not.

Agreed. Of all the plug standards, the European Mennekes based CCS-2, the China G/T plug, Telsa NACS the next Gen CHAdeMO (not the old one), the J1772/CCS-1 is the absolute worst physical implementation. WE DESERVE BETTER!

I would prefer any of those chosen over CCS-1, but for North America NACS is the best opportunity for standardization because it has significant market momentum, proven reliability and evolutionary support. The IP has been made available, all it takes is the will to make it happen. Ford saw the same issues and made the obvious choice.

CCS-1 is the committee created product of legacy auto, and is now being defended by legacy auto and incumbent committee members more interested in protecting their cushy jobs than making your EV experience better.

A Rivian decision to support NACS could be the tipping point. As Rivian owners, do you really want to support legacy auto and their comical frankenplug standard?

 

[2025R1S]

Absolutely. I totally agree that legacy auto and the SAE has fumbled CCS-1 - and I even suspect that they did it intentionally.

I don’t believe legacy auto companies, originally, bought into the EV concept. I think they were very “Toyota” about it - entrenched industries married to the hip with oil and gas. I think the legacy auto brands made a half-hearted attempt thru the SAE at developing a plug because they had to have something if Tesla was to have something.

I don’t think they designed it to be an attractive solution - because they wanted EV’s to fail. They wanted to show how silly and unpractical they are.

The EV movement will be (further) hurt by CCS, if we continue to make excuses for it. CCS is the butt of jokes, and one of the talking points the anti-EV crowd uses.

If Tesla is willing to play ball and fairly allow access to something that they have essentially proposed to be a standard - then lets do it. Why shouldn’t we all be able to use something that is fricking awesome?

To those who say we can’t use NACS; then I ask, can we at least make a better CCS plug?

Agreed. Of all the plug standards, the European Mennekes based CCS-2, the China G/T plug, Telsa NACS the next Gen CHAdeMO (not the old one), the J1772/CCS-1 is the absolute worst physical implementation. WE DESERVE BETTER!

I would prefer any of those chosen over CCS-1, but for North America NACS is the best opportunity for standardization because it has significant market momentum, proven reliability and evolutionary support. The IP has been made available, all it takes is the will to make it happen. Ford saw the same issues and made the obvious choice.

CCS-1 is the committee created product of legacy auto, and is now being defended by legacy auto and incumbent committee members more interested in protecting their cushy jobs than making your EV experience better.

A Rivian decision to support NACS could be the tipping point. As Rivian owners, do you really want to support legacy auto and their comical frankenplug standard?

 

[scottf200]

The inlet (car side) isn't liquid cooled, the charger most certainly is.

Charging connector being cooled would have an impact on the inlet tho.
(link: 2019 Tesla patents new liquid-cooled charging connector)

 

[camaroz1985]

Charging connector be cooled would have an impact on the inlet tho.
(link: 2019 Tesla patents new liquid-cooled charging connector)

Yes of course it would, but there are also inlets that are liquid cooled on the vehicle side as well, which is what Tesla is saying they aren't doing here.

 

[zefram47]

To those who say we can’t use NACS; then I ask, can we at least make a better CCS plug?

Sure...CharIN and the SAE should make a v2 CCS that is actually better along with an adapter for backward compatibility. It's almost too late, but now is as good a time as any. NACS is off limits unless ownership transfers to an actual standards body and is no longer controlled by Tesla. Even the CHAdeMO v3 is closer to the Tesla plug than CCS.

 

[SANZC02]

… As Rivian owners, do you really want to support legacy auto and their comical frankenplug standard?

I purchased an R1S so….yes…??

I really do not understand all of hate here, most people will probably be charging at home and the J1772 is not much different then the Tesla plug for ease of use. I do not see the CCS plug being much different to use than a gas nozzle.

 

[Autolycus]

I purchased an R1S so….yes…??

I really do not understand all of hate here, most people will probably be charging at home and the J1772 is not much different then the Tesla plug for ease of use. I do not see the CCS plug being much different to use than a gas nozzle.

Seriously, it's like these people never filled a gas tank in their lives.

If CCS is so hard to use, maybe we need to be like NJ and Oregon and require that an employee of a charging station be the one who plugs us in.

 

[Longreach]

Sure...CharIN and the SAE should make a v2 CCS that is actually better along with an adapter for backward compatibility. It's almost too late, but now is as good a time as any. NACS is off limits unless ownership transfers to an actual standards body and is no longer controlled by Tesla. Even the CHAdeMO v3 is closer to the Tesla plug than CCS.

You are under false impressions regarding standards ownership. Just about all standards contain proprietary IP licensed under FRAND conditions as a precondition to standardization. The J1772 plug on which CCS-1 is based is a proprietary Yazaki design which is licensed to anyone who wants it. Same for the Mennekes plug underpinning CCS-2. Tesla has offered to license under the same conditions, so your ”off limits” comment is uninformed.

Regarding CHAdeMO v3, I agree that would be almost as good as NACS. But it would be a greater uphill battle to gain acceptance compared to NACS, which has such high market momentum in North America.

 

[docwhiz]

https://www.thestreet.com/investing...ncement-could-shake-up-the-entire-ev-industry

Tesla aspires to be as helpful as possible to other car companies," Musk Tweeted June 5. Noting that the car company made its patents "freely available" in 2014, Musk also mentioned that the EV giant is bringing other car makers into its network of superchargers.

"Also happy to license Autopilot/FSD or other Tesla technology," Musk added.

 

[cdub]

GM just adopted NACS!!!

https://twitter.com/i/spaces/1OwxWwQOPlNxQ

 

[docwhiz]

I think it's certain now that Rivian will also join NACS.
CCS is dead.
(GM will have NACS on cars in 2025 and provide an adapter next Spring.)

 

[scottf200]

GM just adopted NACS!!!

https://twitter.com/i/spaces/1OwxWwQOPlNxQ

 

[SANZC02]

No one is talking about charge-port locations currently on Ford and GM vehicles. I assume they will relocate them for the NACS ports but the interim between that and the adapter usage is a logistics nightmare.

I always thought when the Rivian test mules had them on the right front it would be great if the ever opened the Tesla Stations but then the production models moved to the left front.

 

[scottf200]

news. gm. com - General Motors Doubles Down on Commitment to a Unified Charging Standard and Expands Charging Access to Tesla Supercharger Network
...
The Tesla Supercharger Network will be open to GM EV drivers starting in 2024 and will initially require the use of an adapter. Beginning in 2025, the first GM EVs will be built with a NACS inlet for direct access to Tesla Superchargers without an adapter. In the future, GM will make adapters available for drivers of NACS-enabled vehicles to allow charging on CCS-capable fast charge stations.

GM will also integrate the Tesla Supercharger Network into its vehicle and mobile apps, helping drivers quickly and easily locate, pay for, and initiate charging at available Tesla Superchargers. This will complement the charging experience at the growing Ultium Charge 360 Network of charging stations, as well as additional charging stations GM makes available through existing integrations with other charging networks.
...

https://news.gm.com/newsroom.detail.html/Pages/news/us/en/2023/jun/0608-gm.html

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