From a former Jeep and current Bronco owner

[MountainBikeDude]

I recently joined the forum, but I have been a constant lurker curious as to what Rivian has been doing. I've always been into lifestyle vehicles as I love to go spend time outdoors including camping/off-roading. Being a Bronco owner, I have taken my vehicle on numerous trips across the country and been on multiple trails.

Today, I finally got my chance to park right next to a green R1T. I from time to time got to see one on the road but never up close and in person. I'll be honest I was blown away by the craftsmanship and how well it looked. Part of me was always skeptical, but always intrigued by it. It was almost as tall as my Sasquatch Bronco with the All-Terrain Package but definitely held its own in looks and stoutness.

I know most of this has been said before, but there are ICE owners out there that are intrigued in EV's just waiting for the right moment to purchase one. What's been stopping me is a few things. Yes, I have been following Rivian a very long time and done research so im not just saying these things lightly.

1. The price tag 80k is steep for a vehicle. If Rivian can get it down to 60k base model to 80k fully loaded, you would see many people hop on board. I'm hoping to see more price parity between ICE and EV prices in the coming years for the mid size truck segment. Why not have different packages for the R1T like base, overland, luxury etc. to reduce price and help customize? No tax credits also make it difficult because of the current cost being above 80k.
2. I truly hope they add support for a front winch and true rear/front lockers not just the electronic variation of it.
3. If GM, RAM, and I'm sure Ford after the refresh of the lightning can get 400-450 miles for a full-size truck, Rivian needs to step it up here. Yes, I do understand the range loss especially highway vs stated EPA. I live in Texas, and it takes at the minimum 3 hours to get to another city in my vehicle.

Aside from those concerns, the Rivian is now officially (hopefully) going to be my next vehicle after 2025-2026 when the new NACS port is built in natively. I know, I know the adapter!

I wish I had included a side by side with the Rivian, but my Bronco is parked right next to it.

Honestly, if it weren't for Rivian I would have considered the Bronco.

On your point about different trims 60-80k. The R1 launched with an Explore (base) trim, but the price difference at the time only amounted to a few thousand in savings and because of the low adoption rate paired with the need to simplify the production line, it was dropped.

The issue with the R1 Explore trim was the base vehicle was entirely intact, hydraulic suspension quad motors etc. Leaving the main platform entirely intact, meant there was little left to strip down to achieve a lower price point. The current Dual Motor LFP pack stripped down completely still hits 73k, which goes to show you the suspension, motors, and batteries are the key factors in driving the price point.

Full circle, dropping the R1 platform to 60k would take away so many of the features that make the R1 compelling. At the current price, you drive away still feeling like you owe Rivian something because it's breadth of functionality is truly second to none.

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[itselectric]

To anyone who has ever driven a truck or SUV prior to electric vehicles, the Rivians are just flat out incredible. Smooth, quick acceleration and great handling for the size and weight.

I always wanted to be a truck owner but could not stand the loud sluggish engines of the dinosaurs on the road. EVs have changed that.

I put a deposit down for a Bronco but enjoyed the R1T much more. It's not quite as cool to sit in a normal cabin without removable parts, but the luxury and driving experience are superior for my needs.

 

[usulio]

Honestly, if it weren't for Rivian I would have considered the Bronco.

On your point about different trims 60-80k. The R1 launched with an Explore (base) trim, but the price difference at the time only amounted to a few thousand in savings and because of the low adoption rate paired with the need to simplify the production line, it was dropped.

The issue with the R1 Explore trim was the base vehicle was entirely intact, hydraulic suspension quad motors etc. Leaving the main platform entirely intact, meant there was little left to strip down to achieve a lower price point. The current Dual Motor LFP pack stripped down completely still hits 73k, which goes to show you the suspension, motors, and batteries are the key factors in driving the price point.

Full circle, dropping the R1 platform to 60k would take away so many of the features that make the R1 compelling. At the current price, you drive away still feeling like you owe Rivian something because it's breadth of functionality is truly second to none.

Great points. And don't forget the R1 (for better or worse) is also aimed at the "luxury car" segment and a lot of people seem to value the styling and luxury features, which can't be cheap to build either.

 

[CharonPDX]

I came here with good intentions and I'm getting blown up for one comment. Also, very short sited on the no research. I've been keeping up with all things EV and very much in tune with Rivian and the things they are doing. All I stated was that to get more people on board there needs to be more price parity between EV's and ICE.

Yeah, you don't roll up to a Harley biker bar on your Ducati, and immediately start ragging on how trash Harleys are. Then when you get beat up go "I was just trying to help improve Harleys!" That isn't "good intentions", that's shit-stirring.

Yes, "EVs need to be cheaper" is a long-time complaint about EVs. And if you'd done even the slightest bit of homework, you'd know two things about Rivian:

1. The launch Rivians are the high-end ones. They aren't meant to be cheap. (That said, for what you get, they *ARE* cheap. They're higher performance and better off-road than a Ford Raptor, and cost about the same.)

2. Rivian is working on a cheaper model.

3 (bonus) This argument has been had *MANY* times on this forum. We don't need yet another thread about it from someone who didn't spend a few minutes searching.

Don't be the dick Ducati guy at the Harley bar. Sure, ride your Ducati to the Harley bar, and sit and listen for a while, then ask questions that don't just call out Harley. But don't come screaming in and start blasting what Harley needs to improve. Most Harley owners already know.

 

[bgoldber88]

Welcome to the forum. Love the Bronco - I mulled one of those instead of my R1T before pulling the trigger on the Rivian. I think your points seem fair regarding price and lockers. There aren’t many people who can afford a midsize truck in this price range. My guess is that Rivian does have plans to address this with the R2 and also R1 as their production backlog thins out. For now, they have a captive base of buyers paying full price.

 

[COdogman]

Wait till the prices on the next top level Tacoma TRD Pro, Ranger Raptor, and ZR2 come out. I think people will be shocked and the price of a Rivian or a Lightning will not look so crazy. The prices of vehicles in general have shot through the roof in the past 5 years. EVs even more so.

The "$40k Cybertruck" bros better be sitting down during that announcement as well...

 

[jimmyb2]

I recently joined the forum, but I have been a constant lurker curious as to what Rivian has been doing. I've always been into lifestyle vehicles as I love to go spend time outdoors including camping/off-roading. Being a Bronco owner, I have taken my vehicle on numerous trips across the country and been on multiple trails.

Today, I finally got my chance to park right next to a green R1T. I from time to time got to see one on the road but never up close and in person. I'll be honest I was blown away by the craftsmanship and how well it looked. Part of me was always skeptical, but always intrigued by it. It was almost as tall as my Sasquatch Bronco with the All-Terrain Package but definitely held its own in looks and stoutness.

I know most of this has been said before, but there are ICE owners out there that are intrigued in EV's just waiting for the right moment to purchase one. What's been stopping me is a few things. Yes, I have been following Rivian a very long time and done research so im not just saying these things lightly.

1. The price tag 80k is steep for a vehicle. If Rivian can get it down to 60k base model to 80k fully loaded, you would see many people hop on board. I'm hoping to see more price parity between ICE and EV prices in the coming years for the mid size truck segment. Why not have different packages for the R1T like base, overland, luxury etc. to reduce price and help customize? No tax credits also make it difficult because of the current cost being above 80k.
2. I truly hope they add support for a front winch and true rear/front lockers not just the electronic variation of it.
3. If GM, RAM, and I'm sure Ford after the refresh of the lightning can get 400-450 miles for a full-size truck, Rivian needs to step it up here. Yes, I do understand the range loss especially highway vs stated EPA. I live in Texas, and it takes at the minimum 3 hours to get to another city in my vehicle.

Aside from those concerns, the Rivian is now officially (hopefully) going to be my next vehicle after 2025-2026 when the new NACS port is built in natively. I know, I know the adapter!

I wish I had included a side by side with the Rivian, but my Bronco is parked right next to it.

The issue about "lockers" for the 4 motor Rivian is going to be solved in the future. Actually, via the software control of the 4 motors the wheels can all be controlled to turn at exactly the same speed. That is not the problem. Very precise control at very slow speeds is the problem.

With ICE vehicles having up to 3 lockers (front axle, rear axle, between the axles) AND having a transfer case with which to shift into a "low" range that very precise control at very slow speeds is achieved. However, try locking those 3 "lockers", and keep the transfer case in "high" range. Now, very precise control at very slow speeds is nearly as difficult as in the present day Rivian.

The solution is coming from Rivian ...

https://www.thedrive.com/news/rivian-patents-bolt-on-low-range-crawler-gearbox-for-off-road-evs

Those will give the Rivian the exact same (and maybe even better) very precise control at very slow speeds.

 

[Dark-Fx]

The solution is coming from Rivian ...

https://www.thedrive.com/news/rivian-patents-bolt-on-low-range-crawler-gearbox-for-off-road-evs

A patent doesn't mean they are actually going to deliver on the idea.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

1. The price tag 80k is steep for a vehicle. If Rivian can get it down to 60k base model to 80k fully loaded, you would see many people hop on board. I'm hoping to see more price parity between ICE and EV prices in the coming years for the mid size truck segment. Why not have different packages for the R1T like base, overland, luxury etc. to reduce price and help customize? No tax credits also make it difficult because of the current cost being above 80k.

I'm no fan of Sandy Munro, but he knows auto manufacturing and costs. Watch one of his earlier analysis/teardown videos on the R1T and you'd soon understand the price. Even after 1 year of ownership, he maintains that it should be priced higher than $80k; i.e. "six figures". Furthermore, with current raw and manufacturing costs, it's completely unrealistc to expect a BEV of this size, range and capability to cost $60k. Even at $80k, there is nothing else on the market that is a 1 to 1 equal to the R1T that costs less.

If $60k range suits you better, wait for the R2.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

Yeah, you don't roll up to a Harley biker bar on your Ducati, and immediately start ragging on how trash Harleys are. Then when you get beat up go "I was just trying to help improve Harleys!" That isn't "good intentions", that's shit-stirring.

Yes, "EVs need to be cheaper" is a long-time complaint about EVs. And if you'd done even the slightest bit of homework, you'd know two things about Rivian:

1. The launch Rivians are the high-end ones. They aren't meant to be cheap. (That said, for what you get, they *ARE* cheap. They're higher performance and better off-road than a Ford Raptor, and cost about the same.)

2. Rivian is working on a cheaper model.

3 (bonus) This argument has been had *MANY* times on this forum. We don't need yet another thread about it from someone who didn't spend a few minutes searching.

Don't be the dick Ducati guy at the Harley bar. Sure, ride your Ducati to the Harley bar, and sit and listen for a while, then ask questions that don't just call out Harley. But don't come screaming in and start blasting what Harley needs to improve. Most Harley owners already know.

Exactly. As an aside most of what the Ducati guy would say about Harley has been solved with the Pan America. That truly is an advanced bike on par with any other adventure touring bike.

 

[Trandall]

@Mike777, to your first point The R1T is priced at or below it's value compared to competitors at low to mid $90K. If it had real leather interior, an operable or removable roof, and a multifunction tailgate it'd be worth $110K-120K. I would much rather see them move the R1 line into more premium than go the other way. Rivian is a niche brand, not trying to sell 750K R1's/ year only 150K and I like that.
To your third point Rivian was the first to deliver an EV truck. It has a bit over 300 mile range and there is still no EV truck on the market with longer range (I know Hummer EV but my understanding is there are under 1000 ever delivered). Rivian will also begin delivering nearly 400 mile versions before GM and Ram deliver there 400+ mile EV truck offerings (both of which will be more expensive than the R1T when comparing top trims.) Another thing about the 400+ mile Silverado EV is that the payload takes a hit which is counterproductive to having a long range for towing purposes.
Anyway glad you are interested in Rivian hope you get one in the future (I'm glad I did). If it turns out that you like the sole-less offering from Mary Barra that's fine too just don't let the door hit you in the @ss on the way out.

 

[pjzabo]

So a few bits of non-bench racing. R1T with 20's and all the off road goodies, a 392XR, and a Braptor went into a bar ... I mean my garage...

Electrons are expensive where I am, and man, gas isn't. So the cost differential between our R1T and our BRaptor for 10K miles - including oil changes, is $600. I really thought it was going to be more, but nope - charging at home is way more convenient, but not _that_ much cheaper (for me). And our electrical utility is trying to go even higher (Eversource ...). Not really the clear cut win over an absolute gas guzzler that I was hoping for.

Yes, the R1T is put together mostly _really_ well. After some fixes by the SC post delivery, it was really good. But I never got over the low speed noise from the suspension that was "within spec". Kinda maddening that the only air suspension that didn't need to get replaced that I've ever experienced that was this noisy was in a brand new 90K EV truck.

Range seems like a big deal before you have an EV, but once you do, it really isn't. My bladder can't go 450 miles. Even if I were towing so it was only 225 miles, I'd still want to stop and stretch out, or let the dog take a walk. Ease of charing is _way_ more important than battery capacity IMHO. Way. You're not a fleet driver, you probably don't need 400+ miles and that's a lot of battery material to get to 180 - 200kWh battery that could make 1/3rd of another vehicle that you'll almost never use. This is why I switched my res from Max pack to large. I realized I didn't really need it for the few times I wanted / needed to go that far outside of the easy corridors.

Anyway, the Bronco's are super fun too. top open or off, plus doors off is a whole different world. Rivian can't quite compete there, but at the same time, the handling and driving dynamics of the R1T is just off the charts for a 7K lb truck. It really does feel like it defies physics.

And the 392XR? It really doesn't do many things better than the Bronco or the Rivian, but it does make the noise and it's _almost_ as fast in a very straight line as the Rivian. And the One-Touch-Top is awesome. And the Jeep Wave thing is great and you have to remind yourself to not do it to Jeeps when you're in your other trucks... But some Riv folks seem to wave too and that parts is pretty cool also.

Anyway, welcome to the forum.

I am trying to understand how the 10K mile cost difference is only $600. Looking at Fuelly.com the Braptor seems to get 14 mpg (maybe that's wrong or low?) If I take $3.50/gallon gas assuming we put just regular in the Raptor and I go 2.3 mi/kwh on the Rivian and the roughly $0.31 that Eversource is charging me right now on Cape Cod that 10K fuel cost difference is really $1152 not accounting for an oil change or two

 

[defcon888]

1. The price tag 80k is steep for a vehicle. If Rivian can get it down to 60k base model to 80k fully loaded, you would see many people hop on board. I'm hoping to see more price parity between ICE and EV prices in the coming years for the mid size truck segment. Why not have different packages for the R1T like base, overland, luxury etc. to reduce price and help customize? No tax credits also make it difficult because of the current cost being above 80k.

It has been reported that the R2T and R2S coming sometime in 2025 will be in the $60k to $80k range. Don't know what they will look like or drive like, but that is a nice thought of the price.

2. I truly hope they add support for a front winch and true rear/front lockers not just the electronic variation of it.

I wouldn't be surprised if an aftermarket winch comes out, the problem I would see is that it would take lots of electricity to work it properly which would suck a lot of electricity

3. If GM, RAM, and I'm sure Ford after the refresh of the lightning can get 400-450 miles for a full-size truck, Rivian needs to step it up here. Yes, I do understand the range loss especially highway vs stated EPA. I live in Texas, and it takes at a minimum 3 hours to get to another city in my vehicle.

The Duel motor version of the R1T and R1S is reported to get 400 miles on a charge.....again,m there factors to that....are you a lead foot, burnouts, punch it, conservative driver?

Aside from those concerns, the Rivian is now officially (hopefully) going to be my next vehicle after 2025-2026 when the new NACS port is built in natively. I know, I know the adapter![

My wife and I had a Volvo XC40 Recharge before we sold it back to the dealer less than 10 months of ownership.....it wasn't a good fit for us...but we wanted to dip our feet into the 100% EV market. We currently have a Toyota Rav4 Prime and love it (as well as the R1T). My brother-in-law ordered an R1T 2+ years ago and we snickered a little at the thought of a EV truck. When he brought it home and we saw it and sat in it and rode it in, we immediately put our reservation payment down. That was October of last year and we picked it up in May. Outside of 1 issue (the headlight system), we love it. The great thing is, I charge at work for free, and on my way home I pass 2 RAN (Rivian Adventure Network) chargers which are currently free to charge. Only have to top it off at home.

 

[Rivdog]

Wait till the prices on the next top level Tacoma TRD Pro, Ranger Raptor, and ZR2 come out. I think people will be shocked and the price of a Rivian or a Lightning will not look so crazy. The prices of vehicles in general have shot through the roof in the past 5 years. EVs even more so.

The "$40k Cybertruck" bros better be sitting down during that announcement as well...

No joke. You think the Tacoma TRD pro will be less than $55k? I assume there will be a dealer markup one way or another, whether it be straight ADM or mandatory packages, but it might even push toward $60k to get one in your driveway before taxes and everything. Car prices are bananas lately, even with the current interest rates.

 

[av8or]

Welcome to the forum. As a built wrangler and R1T owner I can tell you that the R1T is worth the money they are asking for such a versatile, and well built vehicle. With that said, it’s never going to be able to keep up and/or not get damaged on the real hard stuff. The R1T does 80 mph all day, zero to 60 is preposterously fast, it loves to be pushed in the twistys, and on top of that it’s got 15 inches of ground clearance and is a good off-roader, but it’s not a great off-roader, the bronco and the wrangler are better at technical difficult terrain. Example, I’m taking my current wrangler on the rubicon trail for the third time in September and I wouldn’t even dream of trying it in my Rivian.…….hey RJ if you want video of a Rivian on the rubicon I’m your guy…all I need is for you to loan me one, and be ok if it looks different coming out.

If Rivian came out with a less expensive dual motor model that had lockers, coil overs instead of air , a less expensive interior, and few less drive modes at 15-20k less it would probably sell well.

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