Gen1 Quad - New Mode Requested: Dual Motor

[usulio]

The only R1S available when we purchased (August 2023) was the quad - it wasn't really a choice. If we were to buy again now, I'd probably get a DM Max for the range. It still has enough zip (although noticeably less than our quad) and the additional 130 miles range would be really useful. What I really liked about AP mode in the PDM loaner was that it just automatically engaged the rear motor if you stepped on the accelerator. Conserve mode in my quad doesn't do that. As someone above said, I don't need the power most of the time, but when I want it, I want it immediately without having to switch screens (I'm usually on the map screen) and switch modes.

I generally agree with you, but it's not anywhere near 130 more real world miles. On the highway with the same tires and conserve mode, it's probably 30-40 miles max difference in range. In city driving maybe a bit more

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[KBabione]

I generally agree with you, but it's not anywhere near 130 more real world miles. On the highway with the same tires and conserve mode, it's probably 30-40 miles max difference in range. In city driving maybe a bit more

Ah - Sorry...I wasn't clear. The 130 more miles is the difference between my Gen1 Quad with a large battery and the Gen1 PDM Max Pack that I had as a loaner.

As you said, I've found that I get about 30 more miles on a full charge using conserve with my quad. It's an extra 20-25 minutes between charges on a long trip so it adds up.

 

[usulio]

Ah - Sorry...I wasn't clear. The 130 more miles is the difference between my Gen1 Quad with a large battery and the Gen1 PDM Max Pack that I had as a loaner.

As you said, I've found that I get about 30 more miles on a full charge using conserve with my quad. It's an extra 20-25 minutes between charges on a long trip so it adds up.

No no, we were on the same page. I’m saying that 130 mile EPA difference between Gen 1 Quad large and the DM max is not real. If you put the same tires on both and especially quad in conserve, the efficiency difference is marginal and the battery pack difference is worth ~25 highway miles. So I think 40 at most more in the DM max

 

[DKM_R1S]

This is what can happen if the clutch fails to engage properly.

 

[DKM_R1S]

I was told to engage and disengage AP/conserve when static. Other wise you risk damaging the system.

Equally, conserve mode gets me about 20miles of range versus the tire wear and driving dynamics of front wheel only. Not worth it in my book. Just keep it in 4WD all the time.

You are right about your first point. Also, I think conserve can be useful in tight range situations. Sometimes an extra 20 miles is actually very necessary.

 

[Jonger1150]

I have a gen 1 PDM and I have borrowed gen 1 quads.
I found my PDM to be dramatically more efficient.

 

[Jonger1150]

It's coming eventually.

 

[usulio]

I have a gen 1 PDM and I have borrowed gen 1 quads.
I found my PDM to be dramatically more efficient.

I haven’t seen any data comparison for city type driving. For highway driving, out of spec tests seem to have DM as just slightly more efficient and Budman has them about the same here: https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/...pgraded-from-1st-to-2nd-gen.51714/post-898347
I don’t know of other good data on this. But electrical efficiency does not vary that much between the motors. Just a bit. Heat pump may help in the cold but some dispute the impact to efficiency. Other changes are negligible. AT versus all season tires will make a bigger difference than all of these factors.

 

[1stPlace]

This is what can happen if the clutch fails to engage properly.

I'm glad someone has finally posted something like this.

Note to these people who keep saying they switch back and forth, in and out of conserve in their Gen 1 Quads while moving: There is risk of damage if you re-connect / switch to all-purpose from conserve if the vehicle is not at a stop. Maybe there's less risk if you maintain constant velocity and/or drive under 25mph according to the various reports of what some people were told by some Rivian employees. But there is still risk. Saying "it's fine" because you haven't had a problem yet doesn't mean you won't. I certainly hope no one develops an issue, and I wish Rivian just made this clarification in the drivers manual.

 

[Jonger1150]

I'm glad someone has finally posted something like this.

Note to these people who keep saying they switch back and forth, in and out of conserve in their Gen 1s while moving: There is risk of damage if you re-connect / switch to all-purpose from conserve if the vehicle is not at a stop. Maybe there's less risk if you maintain constant velocity and/or drive under 25mph according to the various reports of what some people were told by some Rivian employees. But there is still risk. Saying "it's fine" because you haven't had a problem yet doesn't mean you won't. I certainly hope no one develops an issue, and I wish Rivian just made this clarification in the drivers manual.

There was a video from late summer or early fall where a Rivian test employee R1 had a new layout to drive modes and there was a full-time AWD option for Dual motor owners.

We're at least 4 to 6 months past that video date and still nothing.

I can't imagine the clunk being harmless over time. I really only want the disconnect for long distance travel when I need that extra 25 miles of range.

 

[1stPlace]

Sorry, @Jonger1150 , I meant Gen 1 quads specifically. Editing post now.

 

[DKM_R1S]

I'm glad someone has finally posted something like this.

Note to these people who keep saying they switch back and forth, in and out of conserve in their Gen 1 Quads while moving: There is risk of damage if you re-connect / switch to all-purpose from conserve if the vehicle is not at a stop. Maybe there's less risk if you maintain constant velocity and/or drive under 25mph according to the various reports of what some people were told by some Rivian employees. But there is still risk. Saying "it's fine" because you haven't had a problem yet doesn't mean you won't. I certainly hope no one develops an issue, and I wish Rivian just made this clarification in the drivers manual.

the vehicle was 2 months old with less than 3K miles on it. It happened on the first road trip in the middle of Montana about 1/2 way into a 2,000 miles drive to the west coast.

 

[KBabione]

If Rivian was worried about us switching between modes while in motion, wouldn't they would have prevented it with the software? I'm afraid I often see the "Driver Assist not available above 85 MPH" message - that's purely a software limit. Software prevents us from changing drive modes while Driver Assist is engaged - I really believe they wouldn't let us change modes if there was concern about damaging something.

I suspect there was something else wrong with the motor shown above. I don't experience any clunks or other noticeable changes when switching modes at speed. I don't do it while accelerating - I typically get to my 12 MPH over the posted limit and then engage Conserve. I have, however, switched back to AP mode while slowing down if there's unexpected traffic.

 

[SoCal Rob]

If Rivian was worried about us switching between modes while in motion, wouldn't they would have prevented it with the software? I'm afraid I often see the "Driver Assist not available above 85 MPH" message - that's purely a software limit. Software prevents us from changing drive modes while Driver Assist is engaged - I really believe they wouldn't let us change modes if there was concern about damaging something.

I suspect there was something else wrong with the motor shown above. I don't experience any clunks or other noticeable changes when switching modes at speed. I don't do it while accelerating - I typically get to my 12 MPH over the posted limit and then engage Conserve. I have, however, switched back to AP mode while slowing down if there's unexpected traffic.

Exactly. I was almost done typing this when I saw your new post.

It’s fine to switch because Rivian engineers have control over when you can and can’t switch. If their engineers, who know the most about the design and limitations of the clutches in this application, think they don’t need to prohibit (dis)connecting when a driver requests it then it IS fine. Rivian can lockout unwanted changes when deemed necessary by the people who engineered the vehicles: no drive mode changes while in cruise control or highway assist, no switching to off road modes above a certain speed, no cruise control or highway assist above a certain speed, the vehicle is limited to a maximum speed, etc.

Given the duration of the Gen 1 Quad warranty, Rivian would be preventing (dis)engaging in circumstances which would result in increased warranty claims. So if you don’t trust the engineers knowing the limitations when they designed things then trust the accountants.

Everything else we’ve heard about the dangers of (dis)engaging while in motion, under load, and/or above a certain speed is hearsay, speculation, fear-mongering, or some combination.

 

[1stPlace]

Well I experienced a loud clunk attempting to re-engage all-purpose from conserve on the highway once and a message that said it was unable to engage. So yes, there is software that decides or at least monitors and notifies you of the problem with engagement.

Yes, some of this is speculation...we are on a forum. Everyone is providing anecdotes. Hard to refute the example from @DKM_R1S though. The risk is worth the trade off of convenience for many people. Fine. The engineers may believe the risk is low and Rivian still has the option through software to always limit this if they start seeing too many cases.

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