HOME CHARGER OPTIONS

[MainLineRiv]

I’m contemplating installing a high-speed charger in my garage, although the roughly $3k cost to have an electricIan run a 50amp line to the garage has me thinking about not doing so. I only have a 6-mile commute to work, and get 1.7 kW (~3.5 miles/hour) out of an existing 20 amp line set to 16amp draw in the Rivian, so I’ll get 45 miles overnight. But when I occasionally drive long enough to require a 25% to 80% capacity recharge, it takes a marathon 2-day charging session. Anyway, here is my question: one electrician (I got 3 quotes) would install a 50amp 240v outlet and suggests just plugging the base Rivian home charger I have into that, and says I’ll get high speed charging. I mistakenly plugged my current charger into the 20 amp plug without lowering the Rivian amps and it pulled 34 amps before tripping the breaker, so with a 50 amp plug, I know I’d pull at least that. so Why pay extra for a Rivian or Chargepoint high speed charger?

Sponsored

 

[eskudo12791]

I didn't like having the possible failure point of an outlet so I opted for a hardwired charger. You're pulling 48amps for sometimes up towards 10hrs.

 

[MainLineRiv]

I didn't like having the possible failure point of an outlet so I opted for a hardwired charger. You're pulling 48amps for sometimes up towards 10hrs.

So you think the hardwired high-speed charger adds a safety factor?

 

[eskudo12791]

So you think the hardwired high-speed charger adds a safety factor?

To me I preferred it, and liked it more than the charging brick hanging off the wall. But everyone is different.

 

[VSG]

Well if you're considering running a line I would run the wire for a 60A circuit. The cost difference will be minimal. You could then mount a 50A outlet or hardwire a 60A charger.

If you're going to run the wire, I second the recommendation for a hardwired charger over a plug-in charger, because the plug/outlet adds a point of failure and because outlets have to be on a GFCI circuit which can interfere with the GFCI circuit in the charger and cause nuisance trips. A hardwired charger does not need to be on a GFCI.

I personally would just continue on the way you have been charging if it is working for you. Just keep your vehicle plugged in and topped up.

I don't think there is need to install a dedicated charger in many cases - it's a lot of expense for only an occasional need. $3k pays for a LOT of DCFC sessions, so if you really do need to juice up fast then just stop by a fast charger on your way.

But a number of things in your post confuse me.

You don't say how you're plugging in. If you are using the Rivian portable charger, that comes with two adapter cables - one for 120V/Level 1 charging with a NEMA 5-15 plug and one for 240V/Level 2 charging with a NEMA 14-50 plug.

When you are using the Level 1 adapter, the Rivian portable charger will automatically set the maximum current to 12A (which is 80% of the circuit capacity of 15A).

While you can physically plug a NEMA 5-15 plug into a NEMA 5-20 (20A) outlet, the portable charger will not draw more than 12A of current because it doesn't know you have a 20A outlet.

If you are drawing 16A, then my conclusion is you're either 1) not using the Rivian portable charger, or 2) you are using the Rivian portable charger with the Level 2/NEMA 14-50 plug plus an adapter cable to plug into the NEMA 5-20 outlet. Then of course because you are "fooling" your portable charger into thinking you are plugged into a 14-50 outlet, you will have to set the charge limit in your Rivian to be 16A so that it doesn't try to draw too much from that 5-20 outlet. I would guess you're doing it this second way because you said

I mistakenly plugged my current charger into the 20 amp plug without lowering the Rivian amps and it pulled 34 amps before tripping the breaker,

The Rivian portable charger is limited to 32A at 240V when plugged into a NEMA 14-50 outlet, because 32A is equal to 80% of 40A, and a NEMA 14-50 outlet is allowed to be rated for as low as 40A for historical reasons. (Although if you're installing a new NEMA 14-50 outlet, you should wire up the full 50A circuit.)

If you plan to install a charger, you may be able to save a lot of money through your local utility. Many have rebates/incentives that will save you hundreds of dollars, but they may restrict the brand of charger you install. Your state may also offer tax incentives. There is also currently a 30% federal tax credit for purchasing and installing an EV charger(Form 8911) which will save you $1k on that installation.

You might also want to consider future needs. If you get a second EV, then you will probably have more need to install a charger. And for resale, a house with a charger already installed is a lot more attractive than one that needs $3k of work to install a charger. Given that the tax credits are in jeopardy and may no longer exist after this year, if you think you will need this in the future then now is the time to do it because it's not going to get any cheaper.

 

[Revelation]

I’m contemplating installing a high-speed charger in my garage, although the roughly $3k cost to have an electricIan run a 50amp line to the garage has me thinking about not doing so.

Without more details, I don't understand why they want to charge $3k. I have installed my own at multiple locations now, it is not difficult to do once you do some basic research on electrical codes. If the electrician is talking about running a 50A line, he is most likely going to run ROMEX 6WG. With how codes work that would limit you to 40A charging if you went with a hard-wire install.

You can reach out to a different electrician and ask what it would cost to get a NEMA 14-50 outlet installed for a welder in your garage. My guess is they are charging so much because you are asking for an EV wiring job.

The cost could be justified depending on length of run, how the wire will be run or if there were any other panel/service upgrades that would take place to support EV charging.

Anyway, here is my question: one electrician (I got 3 quotes) would install a 50amp 240v outlet and suggests just plugging the base Rivian home charger I have into that, and says I’ll get high speed charging.

"High speed" is a misnomer. You can get faster charging than off of a 120V outlet, but it is not "high speed" imho.

I mistakenly plugged my current charger into the 20 amp plug without lowering the Rivian amps and it pulled 34 amps before tripping the breaker, so with a 50 amp plug, I know I’d pull at least that. so Why pay extra for a Rivian or Chargepoint high speed charger?

As another previously stated, with a hardwire wall connector and 6AWG THHN/THWN you can get a 60A breaker and charge at 48A. That is the max the onboard AC charger is going to charge at. There is not a huge difference between 40A and 48A, it just depends on the cost to get either one done.

 

[eskudo12791]

Without more details, I don't understand why they want to charge $3k. I have installed my own at multiple locations now, it is not difficult to do once you do some basic research on electrical codes. If the electrician is talking about running a 50A line, he is most likely going to run ROMEX 6WG. With how codes work that would limit you to 40A charging if you went with a hard-wire install.

You can reach out to a different electrician and ask what it would cost to get a NEMA 14-50 outlet installed for a welder in your garage. My guess is they are charging so much because you are asking for an EV wiring job.

The cost could be justified depending on length of run, how the wire will be run or if there were any other panel/service upgrades that would take place to support EV charging.

"High speed" is a misnomer. You can get faster charging than off of a 120V outlet, but it is not "high speed" imho.


As another previously stated, with a hardwire wall connector and 6AWG THHN/THWN you can get a 60A breaker and charge at 48A. That is the max the onboard AC charger is going to charge at. There is not a huge difference between 40A and 48A, it just depends on the cost to get either one done.

After charging off 120v at an airbnb at a whopping 1mph, 25mph seems like fast charging

 

[MainLineRiv]

Well if you're considering running a line I would run the wire for a 60A circuit. The cost difference will be minimal. You could then mount a 50A outlet or hardwire a 60A charger.

If you're going to run the wire, I second the recommendation for a hardwired charger over a plug-in charger, because the plug/outlet adds a point of failure and because outlets have to be on a GFCI circuit which can interfere with the GFCI circuit in the charger and cause nuisance trips. A hardwired charger does not need to be on a GFCI.

I personally would just continue on the way you have been charging if it is working for you. Just keep your vehicle plugged in and topped up.

I don't think there is need to install a dedicated charger in many cases - it's a lot of expense for only an occasional need. $3k pays for a LOT of DCFC sessions, so if you really do need to juice up fast then just stop by a fast charger on your way.

But a number of things in your post confuse me.

You don't say how you're plugging in. If you are using the Rivian portable charger, that comes with two adapter cables - one for 120V/Level 1 charging with a NEMA 5-15 plug and one for 240V/Level 2 charging with a NEMA 14-50 plug.

When you are using the Level 1 adapter, the Rivian portable charger will automatically set the maximum current to 12A (which is 80% of the circuit capacity of 15A).

While you can physically plug a NEMA 5-15 plug into a NEMA 5-20 (20A) outlet, the portable charger will not draw more than 12A of current because it doesn't know you have a 20A outlet.

If you are drawing 16A, then my conclusion is you're either 1) not using the Rivian portable charger, or 2) you are using the Rivian portable charger with the Level 2/NEMA 14-50 plug plus an adapter cable to plug into the NEMA 5-20 outlet. Then of course because you are "fooling" your portable charger into thinking you are plugged into a 14-50 outlet, you will have to set the charge limit in your Rivian to be 16A so that it doesn't try to draw too much from that 5-20 outlet. I would guess you're doing it this second way because you said


The Rivian portable charger is limited to 32A at 240V when plugged into a NEMA 14-50 outlet, because 32A is equal to 80% of 40A, and a NEMA 14-50 outlet is allowed to be rated for as low as 40A for historical reasons. (Although if you're installing a new NEMA 14-50 outlet, you should wire up the full 50A circuit.)

If you plan to install a charger, you may be able to save a lot of money through your local utility. Many have rebates/incentives that will save you hundreds of dollars, but they may restrict the brand of charger you install. Your state may also offer tax incentives. There is also currently a 30% federal tax credit for purchasing and installing an EV charger(Form 8911) which will save you $1k on that installation.

You might also want to consider future needs. If you get a second EV, then you will probably have more need to install a charger. And for resale, a house with a charger already installed is a lot more attractive than one that needs $3k of work to install a charger. Given that the tax credits are in jeopardy and may no longer exist after this year, if you think you will need this in the future then now is the time to do it because it's not going to get any cheaper.

Thanks for the input and yes, you are correct, I’ve ‘fooled’ the OEM Rivian portable charger with an aftermarket connector to the 120v 20A outlet in my garage. I just have to remember to set the Rivian to draw 16A. I originally set it to 20A, and nothing bad happened but my electrician warned me to do no more than 16A, said 20A could overload the wire despite it being a 20A outlet/breaker. The OEM Rivian 120V connector is even slower, like 1kW. Unfortunately the $1k Federal tax credit only applies to certain zip codes, and mine isn’t included. And i got a whopping $50 rebate from my utility Still, if there is no downside to having it charge at 1.7kW for 24-36 hours, I may just keep the $3k and use it for occasional high-speed (350kW) EA chargers near my office. Cost $33 for a 31% to 80% charge in 36 minutes

 

[mikehmb]

I have 2 L2 chargers in my garage, as we have had 3 EVs at a time and has been worth every penny. Still is, despite being down to 2 EVs and an ICE.

Depending on your electricity costs, the payback period on this investment is all over the place. That said, the convenience of knowing I can get to a full charge from flat overnight is worth a lot.

In my location (at $0.27/kWh off-peak) and being able to charge nearby for $0.50/kWh, $3k would get me 60 full charges, or around 18k miles. But then I have to sit at a charger, vs. having a nice bourbon and watching Netflix in my house before going to sleep in my own bed.

TL;DR - what's convenience worth to you?

 

[MainLineRiv]

Without more details, I don't understand why they want to charge $3k. I have installed my own at multiple locations now, it is not difficult to do once you do some basic research on electrical codes. If the electrician is talking about running a 50A line, he is most likely going to run ROMEX 6WG. With how codes work that would limit you to 40A charging if you went with a hard-wire install.

You can reach out to a different electrician and ask what it would cost to get a NEMA 14-50 outlet installed for a welder in your garage. My guess is they are charging so much because you are asking for an EV wiring job.

The cost could be justified depending on length of run, how the wire will be run or if there were any other panel/service upgrades that would take place to support EV charging.

"High speed" is a misnomer. You can get faster charging than off of a 120V outlet, but it is not "high speed" imho.


As another previously stated, with a hardwire wall connector and 6AWG THHN/THWN you can get a 60A breaker and charge at 48A. That is the max the onboard AC charger is going to charge at. There is not a huge difference between 40A and 48A, it just depends on the cost to get either one done.

Thanks for the input, I was surprised as well at the $3k cost to get 50A 240V outlet in the garage. The Rivian recomended firm (QMerit?) also wanted $3k to do a hard wire level 2 charger install, not including charger itself. Both would run the ROMEX line you reference. Apparently it’s because I have 80+ feet of wire from the box in my unfinished basement to my garage.

 

[MainLineRiv]

I have 2 L2 chargers in my garage, as we have had 3 EVs at a time and has been worth every penny. Still is, despite being down to 2 EVs and an ICE.

Depending on your electricity costs, the payback period on this investment is all over the place. That said, the convenience of knowing I can get to a full charge from flat overnight is worth a lot.

In my location (at $0.27/kWh off-peak) and being able to charge nearby for $0.50/kWh, $3k would get me 60 full charges, or around 18k miles. But then I have to sit at a charger, vs. having a nice bourbon and watching Netflix in my house before going to sleep in my own bed.

TL;DR - what's convenience worth to you?

I hear you but I too like my bourbon at home watching my Eagles while the Riv slowly charges enough to easily cover my 6-mile commute. Just have to plan ahead for back-to-back longer trips I guess.

 

[Revelation]

Thanks for the input, I was surprised as well at the $3k cost to get 50A 240V outlet in the garage. The Rivian recomended firm (QMerit?) also wanted $3k to do a hard wire level 2 charger install, not including charger itself. Both would run the ROMEX line you reference. Apparently it’s because I have 80+ feet of wire from the box in my unfinished basement to my garage.

80'ish feet isn't an issue at all. If the basement is directly connected to your garage then it should be a pretty easy run. Is the basement finished and will they repair any drywall damage from the install?

Lowes has 6/3 Romex for $6.49 per foot; you might be able to find it cheaper. You figure another $25-$50 for a breaker, depending on your load center and brand, and that is the material cost with the exception of retention clips/hangars for the wire. It "sounds" like they are basically charging you roughly $2k in labor, depending on permitting requirements/cost where you live. It is up to you to determine if that is worth it to you. That is also assuming the contractor is tacking on, roughly, 10-15% extra in material cost - which a good contractor will normally do that.

 

[Erik+]

Thanks for the input, I was surprised as well at the $3k cost to get 50A 240V outlet in the garage. The Rivian recomended firm (QMerit?) also wanted $3k to do a hard wire level 2 charger install, not including charger itself. Both would run the ROMEX line you reference. Apparently it’s because I have 80+ feet of wire from the box in my unfinished basement to my garage.

Sounds way expensive for an 80-ft run unless there are some other complexities in there that have not been disclosed. Personally, I would do it myself and not hire someone, or if you weren't as comfortable, perhaps you could do the wire run and then just hire the electrician to inspect your work and do the final hook up.

 

[superfly_snook]

So you think the hardwired high-speed charger adds a safety factor?

in my experience, yes it does.

 

[TexasBob]

Bah in my experience over the past 12 years of garage chargers, go with a NEMA 14-50 and use the Rivian portable charger. I have a hard wired unit my wife uses and another dead and disconnected very expensive hard wired poj Blink unit and a 14-50 outlet I have been using for seven years. I strongly prefer the simplicity of a high quality outlet and it is plenty fast for anything I have needed when at home. Save the $800 on the Rivian Wall charger (which where I live is a free 15,000 miles of driving).

Sponsored