Max Pack Battery Capacity Confirmed - 149kWh

[SANZC02]

Thanks for the comparison numbers.
I've been trying to put together a spreadsheet to see how all the trucks compare.
Are there other spreadsheets/tables out there?

I think usable on Rivian large pick is 128.

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[scottf200]

I think usable on Rivian large pick is 128.

Thanks. TBH, I can't tell after doing a little research. This other thread is all over the board.

Total/usable
135/127
141/135

This page is 141.1/135 so 95.7% -- https://www.batterydesign.net/rivian-r1t/

 

[Electrified Outdoors]

Thanks. TBH, I can't tell after doing a little research. This other thread is all over the board.

Total/usable
135/127
141/135

This page is 141.1/135 so 95.7% -- https://www.batterydesign.net/rivian-r1t/

They did a software update earlier this year IIRC which opened up more usable capacity. So some of the older numbers which quoted less usable were probably correct at that time.

 

[scottf200]

They did a software update earlier this year IIRC which opened up more usable capacity. So some of the older numbers which quoted less usable were probably correct at that time.

I'll probably go with what is on this page: https://www.batterydesign.net/rivian-r1t/

The car and driver article number also close matches the usagble % on that webpage
(ie. 95.7% vs 95.5% = 142.3/149.0)

 

[shrink]

An article from Green Car Reports for reference:

https://www.greencarreports.com/new...ck-efficiency-gains-enable-400-mile-3-row-r1s

In short: The Max pack utilizes a new battery cell, in the same form factor used by Rivian's 135-kwh Large pack and without gaining mass—so with its greater efficiencies it may truly be worth the $10,000 premium.

"This efficiency was reached by our engineers who developed a proprietary battery management system that optimizes and increases the usable battery energy from a new version of our 2170 battery cell with advanced chemistry that allows for both higher energy density and higher absolute energy," explained Rivian, in a response provided to Green Car Reports. "This is instead of adding more cells or modules to an existing battery pack, which would add more mass to the vehicle itself.

Rivian on Friday again confirmed that the total (gross) capacity of its Large pack is 135 kwh. Usable capacity, Rivian has emphasized in the past, may vary over time as it improves the electric trucks' performance and efficiency via over-the-air updates.

 

[Dark-Fx]

Thanks. TBH, I can't tell after doing a little research. This other thread is all over the board.

Total/usable
135/127
141/135

This page is 141.1/135 so 95.7% -- https://www.batterydesign.net/rivian-r1t/

2023 EPA results total used for the Large pack tests:
131146.29 Wh
130731.77 Wh
130672.25 Wh
131622.18 Wh

 

[scottf200]

2023 EPA results total used for the Large pack tests:
131146.29 Wh
130731.77 Wh
130672.25 Wh
131622.18 Wh

Rivian on Friday again confirmed that the total (gross) capacity of its Large pack is 135 kwh. Usable capacity, Rivian has emphasized in the past, may vary over time as it improves the electric trucks' performance and efficiency via over-the-air updates.

Thanks for that. I updated my table to reflect it.

 

[Supratachophobia]

I think this is a very good thing to get that much more range with a smaller than expected battery pack. 9000 pound vehicles that achieve 400+ miles of range but less than 2 miles per kWh are simply not practical for many reasons. Here’s a few:

- the electrical grids aren’t anywhere near ready for even the most efficient EV’s;
- our roads will wear significantly more quickly. EV’s are heavy enough already;
- can your driveway and garage handle 18,000 pounds, assuming you have 2 EV’s? Mine probably cant
- increases the time people will need to spend at public DCFC stations that are already severely insufficient. You won’t just be waiting longer for your vehicle to charge, but also those in line in front of you.
- people make mistakes. If you get hit by a 9,000 pound vehicle, it’s gonna be a lot worse than a 7,000 pound vehicle, which is a lot worse than a 5,000 pound vehicle, and so on.

410 miles in the Rivian with a 149 kWh battery indicates that they’re doing something with the batteries that others can’t. That means Rivian has some technology that is more advanced than anyone else, including Tesla. That’s a really, really good thing for the future of Rivian.

I highly highly doubt that. Tesla has been doing this for a decade and they have very smart battery people. There's no way Rivian jumped into this with some hitherto unknown tech advantage.

 

[usofrob]

Thanks for that. I updated my table to reflect it.

This is very interesting. I do suspect the DM will be like 4%+ more efficient than the QM when in conserve based on their EPA testing. It might be even better when they get more compared to full time AWD, but they didn't test that for DM. The raw values for QM Conserve vs DM are 331-336 for 21" vs 349 for 21". Or about the same difference as going from DM 21" to DM 22". That's about 4% better, and it might be even better in full time AWD because the DM is using AWD when going slow already.

Here is my summary of the EPA results: https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/...ual-motors-from-epa-filing.17123/#post-365634

Also, out of curiosity, why do you rate the towing miles/kwh better for the other trucks? Is it because they have large cross section and thus the trailer has less impact?

Also also, as others have said, it seems likely the DM Max still has about the same efficiency as the other DM. So, maybe make that a little closer and thus it has a larger usable size than 142. It's likely the DM Standard pack is going to exceed their estimations as that's what Rivian likes to do.

 

[Supratachophobia]

An article from Green Car Reports for reference:

https://www.greencarreports.com/new...ck-efficiency-gains-enable-400-mile-3-row-r1s

In short: The Max pack utilizes a new battery cell, in the same form factor used by Rivian's 135-kwh Large pack and without gaining mass—so with its greater efficiencies it may truly be worth the $10,000 premium.

"This efficiency was reached by our engineers who developed a proprietary battery management system that optimizes and increases the usable battery energy from a new version of our 2170 battery cell with advanced chemistry that allows for both higher energy density and higher absolute energy," explained Rivian, in a response provided to Green Car Reports. "This is instead of adding more cells or modules to an existing battery pack, which would add more mass to the vehicle itself.

Rivian on Friday again confirmed that the total (gross) capacity of its Large pack is 135 kwh. Usable capacity, Rivian has emphasized in the past, may vary over time as it improves the electric trucks' performance and efficiency via over-the-air updates.

That sounds like such BS corporate/sales double-speak.

 

[scottf200]

This is very interesting. I do suspect the DM will be like 4%+ more efficient than the QM when in conserve based on their EPA testing. It might be even better when they get more compared to full time AWD, but they didn't test that for DM. The raw values for QM Conserve vs DM are 331-336 for 21" vs 349 for 21". Or about the same difference as going from DM 21" to DM 22". That's about 4% better, and it might be even better in full time AWD because the DM is using AWD when going slow already.

Here is my summary of the EPA results: https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/...ual-motors-from-epa-filing.17123/#post-365634

Nice job on that post. I realized that I needed to avoid tire size variations and just use the 21"s (aka most efficient) when I saw the Wiki page table (below). I recall for the Model X that Tesla used to have a footnote on the config page that the 22" would loose 10% range vs the 20".

Wiki page:

Also, out of curiosity, why do you rate the towing miles/kwh better for the other trucks? Is it because they have large cross section and thus the trailer has less impact?

Good observation and question. It is a calculation:
[(towing miles per kWh) / (calc'd miles per kWh)] * (EPA range miles)
and I only had a "(towing miles per kWh)" for one example (blue shade) which was a 7420 lbs dual axle trailer. I added column R showing that resulting % of the EPA range. ie. 328 mi*35.9%=118 mi.
? Do you have any other 'towing miles/kWh' value sources. I think I used a YT from Edmunds Cars where the Rivian got 0.9 and the Ford got 1.0. (The Ford got 1.5 in a diff test with a flat trailer).

Also also, as others have said, it seems likely the DM Max still has about the same efficiency as the other DM. So, maybe make that a little closer and thus it has a larger usable size than 142. It's likely the DM Standard pack is going to exceed their estimations as that's what Rivian likes to do.

Obviously, things get a little fuzzy if you are doing Calcs like I am for the 'miles/kWh' and you change the 'usable kWh'. I used the kWh numbers from that Car and Driver article and did the calc.

 

[usofrob]

Nice job on that post. I realized that I needed to avoid tire size variations and just use the 21"s (aka most efficient) when I saw the Wiki page table (below). I recall for the Model X that Tesla used to have a footnote on the config page that the 22" would loose 10% range vs the 20".

Wiki page:

Good observation and question. It is a calculation:
[(towing miles per kWh) / (calc'd miles per kWh)] * (EPA range miles)
and I only had a "(towing miles per kWh)" for one example (blue shade) which was a 7420 lbs dual axle trailer. I added column R showing that resulting % of the EPA range. ie. 328 mi*35.9%=118 mi.
? Do you have any other 'towing miles/kWh' value sources. I think I used a YT from Edmunds Cars where the Rivian got 0.9 and the Ford got 1.0. (The Ford got 1.5 in a diff test with a flat trailer).

Obviously, things get a little fuzzy if you are doing Calcs like I am for the 'miles/kWh' and you change the 'usable kWh'. I used the kWh numbers from that Car and Driver article and did the calc.

I don't have any specific sources of range for towing except what people have reported on here. I think there is a thread of people reporting their range when towing. It mostly taught me that I shouldn't plan on towing things.

But I was asking about the Chevy, Ford and Ram trucks. You answered for Ford and Rivian, which seems like a justifiable number for both. I've never had interest in those other vehicles to know anything about their towing efficiency. I just expect their general efficiency to be lower, so it would surprise me if the towing efficiency was better. There is someone on YouTube with a Hummer EV and a Rivian. They might have a comparison video. The Hummer EV is very similar to the Chevy Silverado. When I see the Silverado driving around, it just looks like a Hummer with a different grill. (I live near the GM Proving Grounds.)

 

[Pcuz]

Any news on the charging curve for the new battery pack? This new chemistry hopefully gave their engineers the ability to so something special to help charge this bigger battery faster

 

[HaveBlue]

I think cooling is the issue and that would require a different heat/cool pump system or an 800V setup to allow less amperage.

 

[scottf200]

I don't have any specific sources of range for towing except what people have reported on here. I think there is a thread of people reporting their range when towing. It mostly taught me that I shouldn't plan on towing things.

But I was asking about the Chevy, Ford and Ram trucks. You answered for Ford and Rivian, which seems like a justifiable number for both. I've never had interest in those other vehicles to know anything about their towing efficiency. I just expect their general efficiency to be lower, so it would surprise me if the towing efficiency was better. There is someone on YouTube with a Hummer EV and a Rivian. They might have a comparison video. The Hummer EV is very similar to the Chevy Silverado. When I see the Silverado driving around, it just looks like a Hummer with a different grill. (I live near the GM Proving Grounds.)

IMO, Chevy 'understood the assignment' when it comes to towing. They've had event where invitees could tow, they even had towing drivetrain engineers there, and they loan out trucks for the truck knowledgable 'journalist' to test.

TBH, I think they plan on leading that evaluation point.

Towing With The Silverado EV! Everything You Need To Know About Towing With Chevy's Electric Pickup
11:16 in --


You'll Be SHOCKED How Far a Chevy Silverado EV Can Tow vs a Gas Ford F-150! [6500 lbs dual axle trailer]
12:05 in --

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