Rivian charging vs Tesla

[ENVErider]

I love love love Rivian. I’m sad that I have to use Tesla to charge on the road. 2 trips from South Florida to Michigan. We are forced to use Tesla every time. Do better @Rivian. #sad

I expect that most of us on the forum wish there were more RAN stations and that those stations were cheaper, ideally the cheapest available, and no dismissal to your point of view, but I look at it differently when comparing RAN to Tesla networks. Rivian has been making the R1 for just under 5 years, and they are making tough choices on where to put their dwindling funds. Tesla has had almost 18 years to build their network, the advantage of entering a nearly uncontested EV market, and now has the benefit of relying on its power and robotics sectors to help. I certainly am not a Tesla fanboy and personally don't love the idea of giving Musk more profits, but for long trips, I just charge where it makes sense for my trip details and pocketbook, prioritizing speed and costs regardless of the station brand I use.
I don't work know what Rivian's financial details look like, but I feel they have been prioritizing the RAN network development just about right, with their biggest focus on getting the R2 out and getting the design and delivery right. IF we ever reach a future where the R2 & R3 are raking in big profits for Rivian and they still have a similar RAN experience, I might share your point of view and ask that they focus on more RAN locations and lower prices.

Sponsored

 

[Dark-Fx]

I drove from Michigan to south florida and back in march of '22 with the Hummer EV before RAN existed and before anyone besides Tesla had access to the Tesla network. Do better OP.

 

[SwampNut]

Some busy Tesla stations are terrible for vehicles like the R1 that don't have a charge port on the driver's side quarter panel. You need to wait for two adjacent spots to open up so you can block one to fit in, or hope that the rightmost stall has an open spot to the right, or that there is a "pull in" spot on the far left. V4 stations with the longer cables are still very rare. Queuing at one of these stations is a disaster waiting to happen.

I've never had to wait at all, and V4 stations are super common in the Southwest and along major routes in CA. Even at a busy station I've always found a way to fit straight away.

There is far more than economics involved in choosing where to charge.

An important point; the Tesla chargers are nearly always in better locations with better surrounding amenities. RANs in my experience are always in a less desirable place. I have no idea why.

Queuing at one of these stations is a disaster waiting to happen.

LOL...what???

 

[emoore]

Then it’s pretty stupid that they actually half try. Which is a bigger loss? Putting a RAN that nobody uses literally across the street from a Supercharger, or charging less and earning some business?

Seems like Rivian isn't that interested in expanding their network much anymore. At this rate Ionna is going to pass RAN in number of locations and they just opened a bit over a year ago.

 

[beatle]

I've never had to wait at all, and V4 stations are super common in the Southwest and along major routes in CA. Even at a busy station I've always found a way to fit straight away.

That is terrific, but this isn't 2019, and some stations here are exceptionally busy. V4s are still less than 20% of the supercharger network, though it's good to see them upgrading to the "hybrid" V3/V4 cabinets with the longer cords.

An important point; the Tesla chargers are nearly always in better locations with better surrounding amenities. RANs in my experience are always in a less desirable place. I have no idea why.

Not always, but sometimes. I wasn't referring to RAN specifically, but all other compatible stations.

LOL...what???

Queuing at a V3 station is more complicated as you first need to find a spot for the truck, and then for the charger to the left to open up.

Anyway, the whole point of my post was to point out there are a few reasons to choose a charging station, and simply choosing Tesla because they might be the cheapest is pretty one-dimensional.

 

[badger4149]

The cost!! Hands down Testa (yes for Rivians) is way less expensive. Again Rivian needs to do better. Clearly you do not understand.

It makes no sense to me that Tesla is cheaper than Rivian even for Rivian drivers, but it is what it is. I'm very thankful that we get to use Tesla, and I'd actually rather have Rivian focused on vehicles.

 

[TexasBob]

I love love love Rivian. I’m sad that I have to use Tesla to charge on the road. 2 trips from South Florida to Michigan. We are forced to use Tesla every time. Do better @Rivian. #sad

Not sad to me. If I were a Rivian shareholder (I'm not) I would want them to immediately sell the RAN network. They have zero business being involved in that side of the industry.

If Rivian wanted to do something actually useful for its customers, it would jettison the RAN and work on integrating real-time pricing and availability tools so the in-vehicle route planning can save us all money and time. Instead it steers you to overpriced stations unless you do a manual override.

As for the Tesla network, I only use Tesla and Walmart (not the EA ones at Walmart, but the Walmart corporate ones). Those are the only two cost-effective solutions I have found.

 

[CharonPDX]

Then it’s pretty stupid that they actually half try. Which is a bigger loss? Putting a RAN that nobody uses literally across the street from a Supercharger, or charging less and earning some business?

If they lose money when lowering the price, then "earning business" isn't helpful.

 

[CharonPDX]

So… The crux of the question is - why is Tesla cheaper?

Because they've been around for a long time, and they have had contracts with electric utilities for a long time. Bulk electricity contracts have prices set way ahead of time. And when you buy more, you get bulk discounts.

Rivian is probably paying "retail electric rates". Which are both more, and likely more variable.

Tesla also uses battery load-balancing at many of their sites, allowing them to purchase cheaper power (with bulk electricity, it is often both "time of use" and "instantaneous power level.") If the busy time at a station is when electricity is expensive, so that a 20-stall Supercharger station is drawing 2 megawatts, they're going to be paying a ton right then. But by using a battery, they can reduce grid-load to 1 megawatt, or even 500 kilowatts, which makes the power *MUCH* cheaper. Then when the station is less busy, they go ahead and draw power to recharge the batteries.

Finally, electric utilities generally like "regular constant power usage" and will give discounts for customers that do so. So being able to "load balance" with batteries, Tesla can basically guarantee a consistent load, getting even more discounts. They might even have grid-demand adjustments, selling power to the grid from the batteries when the grid needs it, and buying it back when its cheaper; or adjusting instantaneous demand as the grid needs dictate by using/not using/recharging the battery.

I don't think I've seen any obvious battery load-balancing at RAN. Which means when it's busy, they pay a lot more.

So rather than try to charge a rate that is "instantaneous current rate", Rivian has to average it out. Plus they're just outright smaller in number of sites in a given utility's area, and total power draw, so they don't get bulk discounts.

 

[Time2Roll]

Yes the demand charges can be very significant cost based on the maximum draw for any 15 minutes during the billing period. Can be significantly reduced with battery supplementing power.

Sponsored