V2L (Vehicle-to-Load) - has anyone tried it?

[RJK75]

I think it can be done for less than that but it won't be cheap. I have a cabin, I bought a generac 22kw generator from costco, it came with the switch for the whole house on/off grid power. It has auto startup and auto shutdown when the power comes back.

So when Rivian gets out their promised 22kw system that will connect to DC on the truck it should be able to do the same trick. I think the whole generator cost less than 10k including my whole house switch. Installation was something like 3 or 4k.

The cabin uses more power than 22kw if everything is on, I have popped the generator circuit breaker. If I go to charge the truck and the heater is on and the stove it's more than 22kw

I feel like in theory I need 3 things for my house: this whole house power switchover box, a transformer, the device / wire that goes from truck to panel. My cabin system is code complaint and inspected. I'm optimistic it could happen this easily at my house.

That is a crazy amount of power my house with a tenant unit on the same circuit uses about 1.5-2KW if everyone is using a computer lights are on, tv etc. And then up a few KW for a short period of time if someone runs the microwave, or the stove. Even charging the car at 6.6KW would still have me well below 10 if everything else was running worse case like AC etc.

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[Greenwater]

That is a crazy amount of power my house with a tenant unit on the same circuit uses about 1.5-2KW if everyone is using a computer lights are on, tv etc. And then up a few KW for a short period of time if someone runs the microwave, or the stove. Even charging the car at 6.6KW would still have me well below 10 if everything else was running worse case like AC etc.

Do your tenants have gas heating and/or gas water heaters? I think less than 22kwh will also power my whole house. At the house I have a gas stove and gas heater but heatpump water heaters.

At my cabin there's unreliable electricity - it goes out a few days to a week at least once a year. That is the place where I blew the breaker on the 22kwh generator; it has electric range, inefficient electric heater (working to replace with heat pump), electric water heater, plus my EV charger. There's no gas service line at the cabin - I installed a probably too small propane tank and propane generator bc of power outages, but decided not to replace all the existing appliances with propane versions. I have aspirations of solar at the cabin with battery storage, and I want to get more efficient appliances when they die.

 

[Thedude]

Do your tenants have gas heating and/or gas water heaters? I think less than 22kwh will also power my whole house. At the house I have a gas stove and gas heater but heatpump water heaters.

At my cabin there's unreliable electricity - it goes out a few days to a week at least once a year. That is the place where I blew the breaker on the 22kwh generator; it has electric range, inefficient electric heater (working to replace with heat pump), electric water heater, plus my EV charger. There's no gas service line at the cabin - I installed a probably too small propane tank and propane generator bc of power outages, but decided not to replace all the existing appliances with propane versions. I have aspirations of solar at the cabin with battery storage, and I want to get more efficient appliances when they die.

Even with electric appliances, tripping a 22kw generator seems extreme. My radiant floor heating boiler/water heater is diesel and uses little power but my pellet stove uses electricity and runs whenever I’m home and awake. The stove is electric as well and I typically only use 15-20kwh per day in a full size home.

 

[Zoidz]

Even with electric appliances, tripping a 22kw generator seems extreme. My radiant floor heating boiler/water heater is diesel and uses little power but my pellet stove uses electricity and runs whenever I’m home and awake. The stove is electric as well and I typically only use 15-20kwh per day in a full size home.

You need to recognize that there are a wide range of heating and other utility loads in the millions of homes out there. 22kw peak demand is not extreme. And just because it trips at 22kw does not mean that’s the continuous load. I have a well pump and geothermal heat pump heating with electric backup along with regular appliances. In this 22kw generator scenario discussed above, if the heat pump started while the well pump was running, it would trip. Or if my heat pump was running and the electric backup kicked in, it would trip. On a per btu basis, my geothermal heat pump costs less to operate than your pellet stove. Higher electric load, but overall lower cost.

 

[Greenwater]

Even with electric appliances, tripping a 22kw generator seems extreme. My radiant floor heating boiler/water heater is diesel and uses little power but my pellet stove uses electricity and runs whenever I’m home and awake. The stove is electric as well and I typically only use 15-20kwh per day in a full size home.

Can I ask how you measure usage? I don't have a way, the generac I use doesn't appear to have a way to monitor it. I have the app, basically it says is it sitting there or not.

 

[Greenwater]

You need to recognize that there are a wide range of heating and other utility loads in the millions of homes out there. 22kw peak demand is not extreme. And just because it trips at 22kw does not mean that’s the continuous load. I have a well pump and geothermal heat pump heating with electric backup along with regular appliances. In this 22kw generator scenario discussed above, if the heat pump started while the well pump was running, it would trip. Or if my heat pump was running and the electric backup kicked in, it would trip. On a per btu basis, my geothermal heat pump costs less to operate than your pellet stove. Higher electric load, but overall lower cost.

I've only tripped mine once, and I kind of did it on purpose. I knew with the (inefficient old thermistor (is that the word)) heater running and the electric stove plus my car at 48 amps it would be a kind of max load. I wanted to see if it would die and then I could recover it.

I read about this kind of thing but I don't really know anything. The stove is on a 50 amp circuit, so the 80% continuous would be 40 amps. Then 240 * (40 + 48) is close to 22kw = 240 * 90 amps.

 

[SANZC02]

FYI, according to an article on Rivian Tracker, Wassym has indicated the target of 2025 for V2V and V2H on G1 and G2 vehicles. No dates but one of the things planned for 2025.

 

[Greenwater]

FYI, according to an article on Rivian Tracker, Wassym has indicated the target of 2025 for V2V and V2H on G1 and G2 vehicles. No dates but one of the things planned for 2025.

That's disappointing. I really wanted details to come out this year.

 

[SANZC02]

That's disappointing. I really wanted details to come out this year.

Only 3 weeks left in this year.

I was happy to see a target, in the past all we heard was they were capable of it at some future date.

 

[CO-Ed]

FYI, according to an article on Rivian Tracker, Wassym has indicated the target of 2025 for V2V and V2H on G1 and G2 vehicles. No dates but one of the things planned for 2025.

Good to hear but since there's hardware investments to make use of this V2H capability, the sooner we hear, the better. We need to know what the R1s will integrate with, as many of us already own much of the needed hardware in our existing solar-storage solutions.

Hope you're listening, Rivian.

 

[usofrob]

I was thinking of using something like this. It's an all-in-one inverter (not batteries or solar panels).
https://signaturesolar.com/eg4-18kp...v-12lv-48v-split-phase-120-240vac-ul1741-cec/

The generator input is AC. So, I was thinking of using that connected to the Rivian. But 1500 Watts is lower than it's expecting. It would work much better with the CT's or F150's 240VAC outputs.

But, it also has VDC inputs for MPPTS PV input up to 600 VDC and 18kW or 21kW peak. I wonder if that could be hooked up to the V2L DC lines of the Rivian. The Rivian should never be more than 500VDC. But, I wonder if it handles the MPPT input differently than a standard battery.

Either way, it seems like a future product like this could do 1000VDC vehicle input, in addition to everything it currently does. I'd be surprised if it wasn't in the works. And the fully integrated product like this is cheaper (initially) because it's one unit, and it's a lot easier to install too.

 

[Greenwater]

I was thinking of using something like this. It's an all-in-one inverter (not batteries or solar panels).
https://signaturesolar.com/eg4-18kp...v-12lv-48v-split-phase-120-240vac-ul1741-cec/

The generator input is AC. So, I was thinking of using that connected to the Rivian. But 1500 Watts is lower than it's expecting. It would work much better with the CT's or F150's 240VAC outputs.

But, it also has VDC inputs for MPPTS PV input up to 600 VDC and 18kW or 21kW peak. I wonder if that could be hooked up to the V2L DC lines of the Rivian. The Rivian should never be more than 500VDC. But, I wonder if it handles the MPPT input differently than a standard battery.

Either way, it seems like a future product like this could do 1000VDC vehicle input, in addition to everything it currently does. I'd be surprised if it wasn't in the works. And the fully integrated product like this is cheaper (initially) because it's one unit, and it's a lot easier to install too.

I feel kind of stuck wanting to start investing into this area. I almost bought a couple of powerwalls for my house. But I want to have the ability to add solar later, and also v2x with my rivian and whatever vehicle I own in the future. Even if you discount support for rivian, there are so many choices it's decision fatigue time. That device only outputs 12kw if I understand it. That's too low for certain scenarios, our rivians today can charge at 10.5kw (48amps). With powerwalls, each bank of it adds more capacity - then you get stuck in Tesla's ecosystem. Edit - the docs on the inverter you mention says it's stackable, so you can just add another one, then you separately add battery?

I want to do the following - anyone figure this out?

1. get a couple of powerwalls with switch to take over at the house (or some other equivalent system)
2. panel upgrade to match this
3. later add solar
4. later add support for v2x with rivian. This is lowest priority bc power walls can handle the house needs, and standards are unknown for Rivian and who knows if a real standard will emerge, will rivian support it.

 

[Dark-Fx]

Even with electric appliances, tripping a 22kw generator seems extreme. My radiant floor heating boiler/water heater is diesel and uses little power but my pellet stove uses electricity and runs whenever I’m home and awake. The stove is electric as well and I typically only use 15-20kwh per day in a full size home.

y'all got any of them EVs?

 

[CO-Ed]

I want to do the following - anyone figure this out?

1. get a couple of powerwalls with switch to take over at the house (or some other equivalent system)
2. panel upgrade to match this
3. later add solar
4. later add support for v2x with rivian. This is lowest priority bc power walls can handle the house needs, and standards are unknown for Rivian and who knows if a real standard will emerge, will rivian support it.

In my opinion, once you figure out what you are trying to do with your system (lower your bill, lower your GHG footprint, off-grid, storm backup, etc.), the challenge is to piece that solution together. You'd need to decide if you Frankenstein (best components) or buy as much as possible/necessary from one vendor.

To me, the most important part of the solution to get right is the "traffic cop" component. The software configurable device that directs the electricity flow between your supplies and loads as well as converts AC-DC as needed, and maybe does some load management. That could be what you mean by panel, but I took that to mean the breaker panel (e.g., Span).

For me, I have the Enphase solution for solar and storage with a "traffic cop" (what Enphase calls their IQ System Controller). I like Enphase for many reasons, but one, and maybe of some debate to this crowd, is my long bet that Enphase partners (of course not exclusively) with Rivian. When and if that happens, I'd add the Enphase bi-directional charger. I can expand on what I have if you're interested - let me know.

 

[Jonger1150]

My intention is to get a smart panel, battery backup and allow for the V2H

I feel kind of stuck wanting to start investing into this area. I almost bought a couple of powerwalls for my house. But I want to have the ability to add solar later, and also v2x with my rivian and whatever vehicle I own in the future. Even if you discount support for rivian, there are so many choices it's decision fatigue time. That device only outputs 12kw if I understand it. That's too low for certain scenarios, our rivians today can charge at 10.5kw (48amps). With powerwalls, each bank of it adds more capacity - then you get stuck in Tesla's ecosystem. Edit - the docs on the inverter you mention says it's stackable, so you can just add another one, then you separately add battery?

I want to do the following - anyone figure this out?

1. get a couple of powerwalls with switch to take over at the house (or some other equivalent system)
2. panel upgrade to match this
3. later add solar
4. later add support for v2x with rivian. This is lowest priority bc power walls can handle the house needs, and standards are unknown for Rivian and who knows if a real standard will emerge, will rivian support it.

I feel like I'm in a wait and see position right now.

I want a smart panel, battery backup, V2H and solar input. I think that's the final form of what I'm looking for.

The fixed battery will take care of the home while waiting for the EV to return and supply the lion's share of the backup.

I don't know exactly how Rivian's V2H will integrate without it existing and knowing what it will work with.

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