Compared to the R2, what makes the Scout a compelling alternative?

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

True. But the charging network will never be more advanced than the gas station network. At least not in the next couple decades.

Nonsense. DCFC networks are already more advanced than gas stations. Which brand of gas lets you use an app to know which pump is in use right now at a station across town?

The relevant issue isn't technology (if we're not talking about charging speed). It's accessibility. How many there are, where they are. And which ones can you use right when you need it.

New DCFC sites are being added each month. And there will be a lot more "20 to 30" years from now. RAN alone, there were just one or two sites in 2022. Now there are about 149 sites and over 1000 plugs. That's in just 4 years for one of the smaller networks.

Sponsored

 

[Hereforthesnacks]

Nonsense. DCFC networks are already more advanced than gas stations. Which brand of gas lets you use an app to know which pump is in use right now at a station across town?

The relevant issue isn't technology (if we're not talking about charging speed). It's accessibility. How many there are, where they are. And which ones can you use right when you need it.

New DCFC sites are being added each month. And there will be a lot more "20 to 30" years from now. RAN alone, there were just one or two sites in 2022. Now there are about 149 sites and over 1000 plugs. That's in just 4 years for one of the smaller networks.

Yawn.

Advanced means number of stations. Not technology. lol - what are you even talking about?

Plus, I have an app that lets me see what gas pump is free and lets me pay for and unlock the specific pump I want to use, before I even step out of the car.

As with most of your posts, you seem to lack a working knowledge of what you are talking about and just come on to inflame folks.

 

[Kipa]

Thx all. That was helpful.

 

[Time2Roll]

That said, as my son gets older, I want to do more exploring. For example, when I drive from Southern California to Las Vegas, I'd like to spend time exploring desert trails along the way.

There is FREE L3 charging at Rasor Road through July 31. A bit warm right now but maybe worth a free trip. Could check out the hot spring down Zzyzx Road.

https://powerstation.network/location/rasor-rd

 

[Hereforthesnacks]

Yeah, this is my fear with Scout. Interesting product for sure, but it seems that the EV space is full of over promises and under-delivery. For example, I'm still waiting on that solid-state battery Toyota EV that can go 600 miles without recharging that is perpetually to be released "next year" according to Toyota.

Plus you would have to go with a first product for another small startup. Think of all the growing pains this group has gone through…

That said, they have my deposit, for now!

 

[Mike777]

I haven't read up on the Scout other than a couple pieces when it was announced. I'm seeing numerous posts/replies indicating that the poster would be passing on the R2 for the Scout. I'm curious for those who're up on the known details/rumors on the Scout, why would one prefer it to the R2?

My wife is getting the R2 and I'm trading in my Bronco for the Scout. The Scout is just so nice in pictures. I love having actual buttons in the vehicle and the truck size is perfect which is closer to a F150. I just hope it comes in less than 65k

 

[NinjaWrap]

True. But the charging network will never be more advanced than the gas station network. At least not in the next couple decades.

With an ICE car, you can bring more range with you. That’s why everyone has extra gas cans with them. You can’t do that with an EV. And even with the extensive gas station network, you need extra gas on hand.

Range extended EVs solve the issue. I can now get all the benefits of an EV and have 700 miles of range and more gas strapped to the car if I need even more range. And I will have all the power I need overnight. Hell, extended range EVs can theoretically go farther off grid than an ICE car.

8 years of only driving EVs in our household and never once have I felt like I needed to keep spare electricity with me and we don't even have superchargers in my county. Even right now with a failed PCS that doesn't allow me to charge at home, it's definitely an inconvenience to go charge the next county over, but I don't feel like I'm at risk of running out of juice. I am guessing anyone who thinks this way hasn't actually lived with an EV with decent range (99% of them today)

Sure if you're going off roading in the middle of nowhere (Moab?), there is a risk, but the number of people who do that is VERY low. Some of those people who drive EVs do take a generator with them.

 

[Hereforthesnacks]

8 years of only driving EVs in our household and never once have I felt like I needed to keep spare electricity with me and we don't even have superchargers in my county. Even right now with a failed PCS that doesn't allow me to charge at home, it's definitely an inconvenience to go charge the next county over, but I don't feel like I'm at risk of running out of juice. I am guessing anyone who thinks this way hasn't actually lived with an EV with decent range (99% of them today)

Sure if you're going off roading in the middle of nowhere (Moab?), there is a risk, but the number of people who do that is VERY low. Some of those people who drive EVs do take a generator with them.

Where we go - not often - you need spare juice in some form. Folks who think they don’t get towed when someone finally comes upon them. Even in Joshua Tree.

I’ve driven over 200k EV miles and have had an EV for 12+ years. So, no range anxiety here.

 

[usulio]

I haven't read up on the Scout other than a couple pieces when it was announced. I'm seeing numerous posts/replies indicating that the poster would be passing on the R2 for the Scout. I'm curious for those who're up on the known details/rumors on the Scout, why would one prefer it to the R2?

FM Radio

 

[usulio]

Also,
* I prefer Scout's ownership philosophy which is modification-friendly, repair-friendly. Rivian is the polar opposite.
* I prefer Scout's user philosophy which is physical buttons and straightforward, Rivian is more gadgets and apps oriented.

IMO R2 does not have the battery pack size for big camping type adventures. But as everyone says, Scout appears to be an R1S competitor. Even if Scout knocks it out of the park, it won't make sense financially for me to trade my Gen 1 Quad large. So I probably won't switch for another 5-10 years unless the R1S gets too expensive to maintain.

 

[dleepnw]

Maybe you're referring to one of my posts. I've said it a few times here.

I love my Rivian R1S, and 99% of the time I have zero range anxiety because I rarely drive more than 25 miles a day. In over three years of ownership, I've probably charged away from home only about 10 times, and even then it was usually for less than 30 minutes.

That said, as my son gets older, I want to do more exploring. For example, when I drive from Southern California to Las Vegas, I'd like to spend time exploring desert trails along the way. I want to visit places like Moab, go camping, and venture farther off the beaten path without constantly thinking about where I'm going to charge.

The challenge is that charging infrastructure becomes much more limited once you leave the main highways. Between SoCal and Vegas, fast chargers can be spread out, and if you spend time exploring trails in the desert, you have to keep a close eye on your remaining range. When you get back to pavement, there's still have another 50 to 100 miles to drive before reaching the next Level 3 charger. That makes it harder to relax and enjoy the trail.

When I go off-roading with friends, the nearest trails are typically 1.5 to 3 hours away just to reach the trailhead. That means leaving home at 4:00 AM, driving there, stopping to charge, and then starting.

The Scout is interesting because I think it looks great and offers the Harvester range extender, which supposedly provides up to 500 miles of range. That would eliminate all the concerns I had up top. It also appears to be designed even more for the off-road crowd, which I like. When the Scout comes to market, I probably won't need a third row anymore, but I also don't want something as small as the R2.

That said, who knows? The R1S is serving me well right now, and I still have more than two years and roughly 30,000 miles of warranty remaining. The R2 feels too small for my needs, and the Scout has already been delayed and could easily slip another year or more.

I'm optimistic about the Scout, but we'll have to see how things play out.

Same reasoning for me. I've done multiple road trips in my R1T spanning more than 2500 miles per trip. It was painful charging. Pre access to Superchargers, it was an absolute nightmare. Chargers not working, being slow, waiting in line and the charge curve - yikes. I almost never was able to charge within the time I expected - those are "in a perfect world" numbers. Once we got access to Superchargers, access and reliability improved but the charge curve is just not good on the R1. Thermal management is obviously an issue.

The EREV does solve a real world problem and thats long road trips (and off the beaten path adventures you mentioned). For the same 2500 mile trip, I'm going to be charging less, which means saving time and headache. Sure for daily driving, its a bit of a waste to drag around a combustion engine but I'll still be driving in full EV mode and charging at home so not a big deal.

I also think Scout has a better balance of tech and tactile. Tesla is the worst with its minimalist facade. Rivian is much better with actual stalks, drivers screen, and high quality materials. I think Scout does one better than Rivian as an adventure minded vehicle.

Of course Scout has only built prototypes, we don't know final specs and price so a lot of things could change but if they can execute on what they've stated, then I think it is a compelling choice.

 

[rodhx]

Remember the Scouts are much closer to full size vehicles than R1, so the folks who think our R1s are "huge" will be appalled by them.

I have a "first minute" reservation for both Scouts. Not sure I'm interested in the EREV. Also not sure if I'm actually interested in the Terra since it's a full-size truck and won't fit where I park the R1T, but waiting to see how/if it ever comes to fruition.

I REALLY want a Traveler because of the canvas top, it's not a Jeep/Bronco, and John Clark drove a Scout in "Without Remorse".

 

[Thebandit]

Nonsense. DCFC networks are already more advanced than gas stations. Which brand of gas lets you use an app to know which pump is in use right now at a station across town?

The relevant issue isn't technology (if we're not talking about charging speed). It's accessibility. How many there are, where they are. And which ones can you use right when you need it.

New DCFC sites are being added each month. And there will be a lot more "20 to 30" years from now. RAN alone, there were just one or two sites in 2022. Now there are about 149 sites and over 1000 plugs. That's in just 4 years for one of the smaller networks.

Most gas pumps at this point have enough technology to report that info..... it's just completely irrelevant for gas pumps. Filling a tank takes 3 minutes and it's extremely rare for a car to be parked at a gas pump for hours.

 

[rfkxyz]

I have 0 interest in the EREV. It will be slower, likely more problematic, tow less and 95% of the time I will be hauling extra weight for no reason. I will go for the BEV.

This IMO is not an R2 competitor.

Trying to balance EREV with their BEV will be a challenge though so I hope they figure it out.

* I prefer Scout's user philosophy which is physical buttons and straightforward, Rivian is more gadgets and apps oriented.

Scout was my first reservation deposit - like it for the retro-modern design and physical switchgear. Although I really have no need for full size, body-on-frame, locking differential-axle whatevers, etc. But Scout delays and pivot to EREV first then BEV later pushed me to reserve R2 a few months ago. And midsize, unibody w/ on-road bias is really more tuned to my use case (even though I'll never warm to tappity-tap-touchscreen).

I just have zero interest in lugging around an ICE for EREV - I think conventional/strong/full hybrid is a better approach (we have a Grand Highlander Hybrid). I've read about implementation challenges for Scout putting ICE beneath cargo floor & behind rear bumper, such as heat and access. Plus I think that torches their prior plan for service center network - adding ICE changes everything vs. minimal BEV maintenance - I wonder if a tie-in w/ VW and/or Audi dealers for ICE servicing might be necessary.

 

[Great Gatsby]

Scout was my first reservation deposit - like it for the retro-modern design and physical switchgear. Although I really have no need for body-on-frame, locking differential-axle whatevers, etc. But Scout delays and pivot to EREV first then BEV later pushed me to reserve R2 a few months ago. And unibody w/ on-road bias is really more tuned to my use case (even though I'll never warm to tappity-tap-touchscreen).

I just have zero interest in lugging around an ICE for EREV - I think conventional/strong/full hybrid is a better approach (we have a Grand Highlander Hybrid). I've read about implementation challenges putting ICE beneath cargo floor & behind rear bumper, such as heat and access. Plus I think that torches Scout's prior plan for service centers - adding ICE changes everything vs. minimal BEV maintenance - I wonder if a tie-in w/ VW and/or Audi dealers for ICE servicing might be necessary.

While the hype surrounds the EREV, I do think this was a mistake and in huge part to the last part of your statement. They cannot and really should not tie in anything around the VW network. They are trying to be direct sales, which is tough as is and getting pushback at every turn from the dealership coalition, but then trying to get their vehicles serviced where they said that they would not sell from is just asking for litigation hell. The half baked EREV concept apparently was thrown in last minute and that pivot is why I have concerns that they may not see the light of day (they'll be fine though honestly, I think the doom and gloom is overblown).

I'm no expert, but they were better off releasing the BEV first and then developing and releasing the EREV in a few years (if at all). Again, I get the hype surrounding the EREV version, but I think they would have been just fine with the original timeline of 2027 deliveries of a BEV vehicle with 800v, 350 miles of range and $60k starting price. If the R2 is anything to go by, this would have worked long enough to allow them to bring the EREV to market, if they really wanted to. Seems all very backwards now.

I'm holding my reservation because I like a lot of what they are doing in theory even though it seems with every news reveal from them is heading in the wrong direction.

Sponsored