Cancelling my Pre-order, thoughts inside from test drive

[s4wrxttcs]

It's almost as if Carplay and crappy software go hand in hand...

if that was the case Rivian would definitely have car play.

Haha.

I do get your point. Manufactures rely on carplay to avoid having to fix their crap.

I'm just irked that Apple Music keeps pausing. How many updates will it take to fix Apple Music?

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[Great Gatsby]

if that was the case Rivian would definitely have car play.

Haha.

I do get your point. Manufactures rely on carplay to avoid having to fix their crap.

I'm just irked that Apple Music keeps pausing. How many updates will it take to fix Apple Music?

Don't get me wrong, Rivian software is not perfect. But compared to the POS software in my current BMW, I'll take music pausing over Carplay refusing to launch altogether. That music issue with Apple Music is annoying AF. Made me go back to Spotify lol

 

[Thebandit]

The point is that, in most cases, your phone already has all information already in it:
- Downloaded songs
- Audio books
- Calendar
- Preferred map app
- Contacts

Rather than a car trying to recreate all that, why not just have it access the device that is already in your pocket and, by default, up to date?

Exactly. I already have and manage this stuff on my phone. My *car* shouldn't be a second ecosystem to manage contacts, downloaded music, podcasts, audiobooks, and saved locations. I already do that on my phone. When I'm, you know, NOT DRIVING.

Let me use the info I curate on my phone!

 

[s4wrxttcs]

Clearly you want to buy Apple Car play that has a vehicle to go with it.

Side note: In what Universe is Apple Maps better than Google Maps? None.

Lots of people prefer Apple Maps over Google Maps.

It ultimately depends on where you're at, what you're doing, and what kind of interface you like.

There isn't a universally preferred choice.

 

[Great Gatsby]

Clearly you want to buy Apple Car play that has a vehicle to go with it.

Side note: In what Universe is Apple Maps better than Google Maps? None.

Lately, this one. Google Maps has me get off the highway to just get back on. Google Maps is not the king of navigation that it used to be. Apple Maps does some janky stuff so I'd say they are about on par now, mostly to Google Maps drop in qualify more than Apple Maps improving.

 

[s4wrxttcs]

Don't get me wrong, Rivian software is not perfect. But compared to the POS software in my current BMW, I'll take music pausing over Carplay refusing to launch altogether. That music issue with Apple Music is annoying AF. Made me go back to Spotify lol

I do plan on cross shopping the R2 with some BMW options so I'll make sure to test the software first.

As much as I mock the Rivian Software I do recognize that in a way its saving Rivian as that's what VW is getting with their massive investment into Rivian.

 

[justinkitswa]

The point that gets lost when comparing OEM in-house user experience (UX) development to things like CarPlay is how challenging it is for humans to switch between complex systems in real time.

CarPlay works because it's almost identical to your iPhone UX. Android auto works because it's a similar experience to using your android phone.

If you want an example of this, try switching between android and iPhone and see how hard it is to adapt to the different UX.

The thing that Rivian (and GM and others who are dropping CarPlay/AA) fail to realize is that the UX needs to be either so damn basic and simple to be a "no brainer" to use, or it has to be so damn good that it's worth the continual learning and re-learning curve.

The built in Rivian map has taken me to the wrong destination dozens of times, it's gotten better but initially it was comical how far off it could be.

I actually think Rivian will eventually get there with their UX. GM is utterly hopeless.

 

[pricedm]

I took a test drive in a Model Y for the first time yesterday, and it ticks enough of the boxes from above that I'm going to be mostly satisfied with it. I just wish it had a better tow rating.

Please don't buy either a Rivian or a Tesla. We don't need your complaining on either forum.

 

[captainjp]

I don't really have a dog in this Android Auto/CarPlay fight, as I have Teslas and haven't needed or cared about CarPlay since 2021.

However, if Lucid can do it (despite how sh!!y their software is)...

Gawd, that’s atrocious

 

[Thebandit]

The point that gets lost when comparing OEM in-house user experience (UX) development to things like CarPlay is how challenging it is for humans to switch between complex systems in real time.

CarPlay works because it's almost identical to your iPhone UX. Android auto works because it's a similar experience to using your android phone.

If you want an example of this, try switching between android and iPhone and see how hard it is to adapt to the different UX.

The thing that Rivian (and GM and others who are dropping CarPlay/AA) fail to realize is that the UX needs to be either so damn basic and simple to be a "no brainer" to use, or it has to be so damn good that it's worth the continual learning and re-learning curve.

The built in Rivian map has taken me to the wrong destination dozens of times, it's gotten better but initially it was comical how far off it could be.

I actually think Rivian will eventually get there with their UX. GM is utterly hopeless.

Man that's a great point.

 

[ndmiller]

Above all, the lack of CarPlay/Android Auto is the biggest factor in my decision to cancel.

Why waste time test driving a car when the the statement above was well known forever. Rivian is never doing CarPlay at this point and if that's what you want you can't get a Rivian.

No shade to either you or Rivian, but your incompatible.

 

[Jonger1150]

The point that gets lost when comparing OEM in-house user experience (UX) development to things like CarPlay is how challenging it is for humans to switch between complex systems in real time.

CarPlay works because it's almost identical to your iPhone UX. Android auto works because it's a similar experience to using your android phone.

If you want an example of this, try switching between android and iPhone and see how hard it is to adapt to the different UX.

The thing that Rivian (and GM and others who are dropping CarPlay/AA) fail to realize is that the UX needs to be either so damn basic and simple to be a "no brainer" to use, or it has to be so damn good that it's worth the continual learning and re-learning curve.

The built in Rivian map has taken me to the wrong destination dozens of times, it's gotten better but initially it was comical how far off it could be.

I actually think Rivian will eventually get there with their UX. GM is utterly hopeless.

The built in map changed providers. Google Maps is the core map engine now.

 

[Hawkjody]

I'm going to make this post a list of all the things that led to my decision to cancel my pre-order. Hopefully this information will be read by someone who can use the information to make a better product in the future! My whole investigation into the Rivian software/hardware has essentially been a good-faith investigation into the brand.

• Above all, the lack of CarPlay/Android Auto is the biggest factor in my decision to cancel. The Rivian software is not better than CarPlay, and based on the other posts that I've read spanning years of Rivian software developments, I can comfortably say at this point that the speed of software iteration at Rivian is not confidence-inspiring. I don't want to wait for the Rivian software to "maybe someday" duplicate all the functions already present in CarPlay, when I can simply just use CarPlay right now. Below I'll list things that I cannot duplicate from CarPlay/AA within the Rivian software ecosystem:
  • HomeKit support for accessories (and Google/Alexa integrations on the Android side), especially a garage door opener. Granted, Rivian has the best implementation of this in their software because they emulate an old radio frequency based dumb-opener, but I need this functionality on day 1, at no charge.
  • Waze. I want the mapping software to have a social element to it. Waze essentially is a democratic service that allows for alerts that would otherwise be illegal/gray area if integrated into major mapping apps like Google Maps. I want to know where the speed cameras are, where obstructions are, and I want to hear from other drivers what they think about local roads, whether that info is "politically correct" or not.
  • Apple Music, Apple Podcasts, or whatever music app I want. I don't want to rely on Rivian software building an app. I want to be able to use any media app at all times.
  • Apple Maps is simply better than Google Maps for navigation. I use both Apple Maps and Google Maps, and Apple's maps generally are the most performant, and look the most polished. The old days of Apple Maps leading you off a cliff into a lake have been passed over by almost a decade now.
  • Personal wallpapers. I don't want to look at a large scale cartoon drawing of the car I'm already driving in. It's a lot like flying an American flag in America. "You're in America, so no need to state the obvious." I want customization.
  • I don't want to be "advertised" the brand at every turn in the software. CarPlay/AA does a fantastic job removing the car branding so I can have my own personal customization to make the car feel like "mine".
  • I'm able to write my own apps and use them in CarPlay.
  • I want the UI to have Glass-like transparency throughout.
  • Siri/Gemini/Alexa is leagues more reliable than any other assistant I've used, especially with personal context.
  • I rely on on-screen tapbacks for messages while driving.
  • App based ETA/location sharing (not text message based)
• Lack of accessories compared to Teslas. Almost all of the hardware/software features that Tesla doesn't support can be added with aftermarket parts. CarPlay/AA, auto presenting doorhandles, LED lightbar customizations, Sunroof covers, extra physical knobs (thanks in part to the extensibility support offered by the Tesla infotainment software), driver display, etc. Tesla Accessories. To be fair, Rivian does have accessories too, but they're not nearly as powerful as the competition, because of the lack of volume sales, and support by Rivian corporate.
• Lack of a 19" wheel option with the Launch Edition. I want to be able to maximize range, and to do that I need the smallest, lightest possible wheel. I asked about buying a set of 19" wheels, and I was told not to bother doing so by the salesperson.
• The Rivian infotainment software features that will be missing at launch. Never ever buy a product predicated on the promise of future software features. Also, if these basic features from the R1 can't make it to the R2 by launch, it'll take even longer for software features to be released based on customer feedback on the R2.
  • Rivian Assistant
  • Camping Mode
  • Garage Door support
  • Climate Hold
  • Pet Mode
  • Gear Guard will be present but with limited functionality.
• The halo wheels were awful outside of vertical scrolling; I just couldn’t get left and right clicks to trigger. The software integration with them was awful and I found myself not immediately understanding when I could go left/right/forward/backwards in a menu. Pressing into the wheels and pressing behind the wheels felt better than left/right clicks, but I wanted them to feel like the middle click on a mouse, and absolutely didn't feel that in my hands-on.
  • Scrolling with the wheels felt better than excellent. Definitely the best scroll wheel I’ve ever used in any product, ever.
• The lack of 2 pedal driving (forward creep) was unbelievably disappointing.
  • people coming from an ICE car are going to be disappointed by the lack of 2 pedal driving. Parking into a tight garage is also way harder without a coasting feature.
• The sales rep straight up couldn’t answer any intermediate level questions, and just seemed in a rush to get back to his desk in the empty waiting room. Not super confidence-inspiring service. These vehicles that are software defined need a rep dedicated to all the particulars, because if I can't find something in the software with my 20 years of software development, a non-tech person would be just lost.
• Super disappointed that there’s no option to delete the sunroof. I’d much much much prefer to have a metal roof. Here in the southwest, having a sunroof that can't be covered up is a huge loss.
  • besides the obvious heat-issues, getting a crack is a giant pane of glass on the roof is just not something I want to be possible. Here in the southwest, rocks fly at you all the time, and glass coverage isn't free anymore like it used to be with insurance.
• Autonomy+ issues
  • I couldn't get the car to switch lanes autonomously on my test drive (on excellent surface streets; I didn't have time to get on the highway to test it there)
  • I couldn't find an auto park function. I had to park the vehicle manually when I returned to the service center.
• Cruise control/driving dynamics
  • I really liked being able to set a speed in the cruise control with the +1 and +5 increments, but my Prius/Rav4 did a better job of that with the single pull down/push up for incremental speed changes in cruise control speed. The knobs method on the R2 felt worse from a UX perspective.
  • The brake regen felt like I was hard braking even with the lightest and most careful manipulation of the accelerator pedal. I simply couldn't come to a clean, limo-like stop like I can in my Lightning (which has 2 pedal, coasting mode enabled)
• The color choices were just awful. I wanted more bold color choices besides Catalina Cove and Borealis. Ideally, I'd want a watermelon green, but that's just me.
  • since these cars are made to order, there shouldn't be an issue with custom color selection if they're hand painted anyway
  • give me an RGB slider to customize the paint to whatever I want in the configurator (I'd be willing to pay extra for this)

Just curious what car gives you all these features you desire ?

 

[Horsey]

Just curious what car gives you all these features you desire ?

I'll put it in the OP, but I'm getting a Model Y and putting a ScreenMate in it (it's a whole android tablet computer than man-in-the-middle connects with the car CPU). I just can't justify waiting another 6 months or so for an EVPlay to eventually come out for the R2. I'm glad I test drove the R2, and I'll definitely try them out again in 10 years when I'm buying again, if they're still around. It's not just CarPlay though, I'm also nervous that Autonomy+ will be just glorified cruise control for far too long, and I'll never get a toggle to turn off regen braking. I'll just be better off with the Tesla.

Some of the other complaints still stand as nitpicks, sure, but they're definitely valid, and I stand by everything I said.

 

[Horsey]

Don't get me wrong, Rivian software is not perfect. But compared to the POS software in my current BMW, I'll take music pausing over Carplay refusing to launch altogether. That music issue with Apple Music is annoying AF. Made me go back to Spotify lol

no, compared to other automotive software, Rivian is way better than legacy automotive.

Barring the Chinese cars, infotainment as I've experienced them has been

Tesla > Polestar > Volvo > Rivian > everyone else

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