GM adopts Tesla's NACS standard! Munro begs Rivian to switch

[MP3Mike]

If adopted by Rivian, is speculation that this might be something that could be retrofit on previously delivered vehicles?

I've seen no talk of a retrofit. Both GM and Ford said that they will provide/sell an adapter.

A retrofit would likely be fairly expensive.

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[Sully151]

If adopted by Rivian, is speculation that this might be something that could be retrofit on previously delivered vehicles?

This is my question as well, since I am picking my R1S up next week.

 

[zefram47]

No, we don't. As DC fast chargers are not the only way to "fuel-up" an EV.

What we need is hundreds of thousands of L2 EVSEs. And amazingly most EVs come with one. (Tesla being an exception.) And the BIL funding is planning to put in ~450k L2 EVSEs where people need them most: Apartments, businesses, shopping malls, parks, etc. And lots of states/utilities have incentives for people to install a L2 EVSE at home.

Bingo. We need L2 chargers at every hotel, restaurant, movie theater, workplace, etc. Enough that the majority of people can opportunity charge. DCFC should be for corridor, long distance travel and for the most part L2 for everyday charging. Or low-power DC chargers, like 25-50 kW, but they'd still be more expensive to install than L2.

 

[Jarico75]

The latter part is correct.

CCS is open standard, so DCFC providers offering CCS can’t discriminate who gets to charge on it. Teslas, GM, Ford, Rivian can all charge on CCS if they can receive it.

There are quite a few CCS chargers that are not open to the public. An open standard does not mean open to the public.

 

[iansriv]

One question worth asking, since the federal government is incentivizing charging and handing out $$, should they join the conversation to get everyone on the same standard? That’s pretty much what happened in the EU.

Yes, federal intervention is always great.

 

[iansriv]

Just a question of time before the other manufacturers follow suit.

Hopefully that will include Rivian, such that when I get my R1S, maybe in late 2024, it already has the Tesla plug.

Suddenly, I'm not in a rush to get my R1S anymore.

 

[Jarico75]

CCS is the global standard for charging. The US Government also thinks so and is planning to invest billions in a CCS network across the US. Hundreds of thousands of chargers.

The metric system is also a global standard, but the US isn't adopting that anytime soon.

 

[Ash]

I'll pay whatever it takes to retrofit my R1T with NACS.

 

[Autolycus]

This is true. And quite the underrated comment.

It’s really not an underrated comment. It’s an inept comparison, if we accept that Tesla’s port is a “better” port. Tesla’s port is more like Betamax and CCS more like VHS: Sony tightly controlled Betamax and was generally difficult for competitors to deal with. That was its downfall. Tesla nearly fell victim to the same arrogance that Sony did with Betamax but has maybe saved its port in the last couple weeks.

The more apt comparison might be HD-DVD, if you want to just focus on “worse design loses out”.

There have also been multiple discussions of Betamax in the various threads over the last few months, so it’s not even a particularly original comment.

 

[SurfnBike]

I'll pay whatever it takes to retrofit my R1T with NACS.

I'm also excited about a retrofit or adapter. I'm going on a 3,000 mile road trip soon and we're taking the Tesla instead of the R1T because CCS charging looks to be much too complicated and the availability of DC Fast CCS chargings where we are going is very poor (Utah/Montana).

 

[scottf200]

I'm also excited about a retrofit or adapter. I'm going on a 3,000 mile road trip soon and we're taking the Tesla instead of the R1T because CCS charging looks to be much too complicated and the availability of DC Fast CCS chargings where we are going is very poor (Utah/Montana).

Similar. I'm doing a trip that is ...
4,737 miles / about 81 hours 23 minutes of driving / about 22 days [MyScenicDrive stats]
... going from IL to WA via ND and back via WY (Yellowstone). Trivial on the Tesla charging network.

 

[SASSquatch]

The metric system is also a global standard, but the US isn't adopting that anytime soon.

It's not about the US adopting it. The US already has adopted it. Every OEM minus Tesla uses CCS.

 

[SeaGeo]

I've seen no talk of a retrofit. Both GM and Ford said that they will provide/sell an adapter.

A retrofit would likely be fairly expensive.

Yeah, I don't really see a reasonable retrofit path given how different the implementation is on the car side.

If NACS is a better technology then I am all for it. But it needs to be that others can implement it and create charging stations without having pricing set by Tesla or we will be paying $1.00/kWh at some point in the near future.

Tesla owns the system. Everyone is choosing to be at the whim of Elon. Good luck.

 

[Insight75]

What are the details of the deals that Ford and GM signed? Will they dump a ton of money in to more Tesla Charging stations? I hope this is the case. The more the better.

 

[SASSquatch]

It seems likely that we won't need that many, but that the locations of chargers will be different than the locations of gas stations. Do we need to replicate my neighborhood stations. Likely not. I charged once in my community, but only to learn how to use a charger. That will not be true for some, but will likely be true for most, at least initially.
We'll need more chargers on travel routes.

It really depends on how good we get with cutting down charging times. Remember, gas stations are 3-4 minute fill ups. Charging right now is closer to an hour.

Maybe we cut that down to 20 minutes in say the next 5 years. Even then, thats 5 times longer then filling up a gas car. You need more density of chargers on the highway to meet demand as we scale up EV adoption.

There is absolutely no argument that we need an a lot more Level 2 chargers vs DC fast chargers. But unless you have absolute ubiquity, people will not want to buy and EV.

The major thing holding back people from buying EVs is cost and the fear of being stranded. Cost will come down as we scale - but the network must be ubiquitous, reasonably fast, and reliable.

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