Rivian doesn't cost less to drive on long trips

[HighVoltOverland]

The Rivian costs about the same as most new premium SUVs. The gap feels closer than when the Model S came out competing with premium sedans. Feels like the Model 3 was competing against the Prius and of course was a nicer car in loads of ways. I think the lesson from this thread is that we don't get many price options with gas but there's the opportunity to save some depending on the source of power. I think I assumed that it would take a long time before the cost would be the same as a gas guzzler and in certain cases, we are there already. So Ca Edison already has .66/kwh residential peak rates and off peak in .30-.45! I feel sorry for those people.

Yes, if you compare apples to oranges, in those cases, they are totally the same.
You are neglecting a major part of your efficiency with capability.

Make the comparison of the R1T with a lifted Tacoma, or a ZR2 Colorado, or a TRX, or a Raptor.
Compare the R1S with

Compare the R1S to the fuel economy of a Jeep Wrangler Unlimited, and FJ Cruiser, a G Wagon, or a lifted Toyota wagon.

Also, SCE has special rates for EV owners, off peak is $0.26 /kwh. RAN is $0.35 /kwh.


The lesson should be make reasonable informed comparisons.

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[Birdowin]

My wife had an Audi A4 Quatro. Great car, reliable but between the maintenance and fuel that car cost us $400.00 a month over the 10 years that we had it and after 10yrs. and 130,000 miles the transmission was going out and the engine was blowing smoke. Big money pit. The Tesla model S that we bought to replace the Audi now has 130,000mi. and we have done no maintenance on it. Just tires and wiper blades. That is the true beauty of an EV.

 

[mikehmb]

I realistically got 16mpg in my old (‘19 Tundra) truck.

Being in the bay area, I’m held hostage by PG&E and pay 27c/kWh off-peak (and I charge at home only in that window).

It’s still 1/3rd the price in that scenario. And as others have said, paying sub 40c/kWh on road trips.

Plus I don’t need to fill that bastard up every 2 weeks. When gas hit $7/gal here I was prepared to light it on fire and abandon it in the ocean.

 

[defcon888]

We recently (September) took a 550+ mile road trip from NorCal (Auburn) to Disneyland. We charged 100% at home and then stopped in Manteca to charge for free at a RAN charger (it was free at the time). We then drove to Visalia and spent the night and then drove to Kettleman City and charged at an EA (awesome experience). We then drove from there to Santa Clarita (close to Magic Mountain) and stopped at an In N Out burger where they had EVGo stations about 10 feet from the front door. We could have made it to Disneyland without stopping and arriving with about 25 miles left, but we were going to park the R1T for 4 days and I didn't want to risk vampire drain....and besides, we were hungry.

We arrived at Disneyland with 175 miles left (we had charged to about 65%-ish). On our way home we stopped at the same places and charged.

All in all, the about 1,100-mile trip cost us about $120 in charging (with EVGo and EA membership). So if remove about 275 in free charging at the RAN and you average it out, it was about $0.15/kW ($120/825 = $0.145).....so, not that bad

 

[defcon888]

I realistically got 16mpg in my old (‘19 Tundra) truck.

Being in the bay area, I’m held hostage by PG&E and pay 27c/kWh off-peak (and I charge at home only in that window).

It’s still 1/3rd the price in that scenario. And as others have said, paying sub 40c/kWh on road trips.

Plus I don’t need to fill that bastard up every 2 weeks. When gas hit $7/gal here I was prepared to light it on fire and abandon it in the ocean.

I hear ya...PG&E SUCKS.

I work in Fremont and drive from Auburn (above Roseville) 1 day a week and stay locally. I am lucky that my company has free charging (L2). We have 8 Clipper Creek chargers and they just installed 8 more BLINK chargers. So, I charge up at home to 90%, get to work, and plug-in and by the end of the day I am at about 70% then I plug in the next morning again and by the time I leave on Wednesday to come home, I am at 90% again.

 

[HaveBlue]

Yes, if you compare apples to oranges, in those cases, they are totally the same.
You are neglecting a major part of your efficiency with capability.

Make the comparison of the R1T with a lifted Tacoma, or a ZR2 Colorado, or a TRX, or a Raptor.
Compare the R1S with

Compare the R1S to the fuel economy of a Jeep Wrangler Unlimited, and FJ Cruiser, a G Wagon, or a lifted Toyota wagon.

Also, SCE has special rates for EV owners, off peak is $0.26 /kwh. RAN is $0.35 /kwh.


The lesson should be make reasonable informed comparisons.

I think the R1S/GX470 comparison is pretty reasonable. I've also done a spreadsheet on the SCE EV rates for a friend with a Model Y. The peak rates destroyed all the possible savings compared to the standard plan. No lesson needed.

 

[Epicloop]

Now that I've observed the vehicle on longer trips I'm realizing that there isn't much difference in cost per mile vs our V8 powered 2007 Lexus GX470 here in CA.

Which would you rather drive?

 

[zapp]

I'm also in the SF bay area and it's pretty annoying that the total cost of owning an electric truck is so high.

Overnight charging at home, you pay $0.27/kwh to PG&E
Fast charging on the go, you usually pay $0.36 - $0.46/kwh to EA, EVgo...

Plus you pay a very high annual registration at around $1200 (due to the weight andverhicle price)

If you also factor in the high depreciation of our R1Ts, plus the costs to buy the wallcharger and get it installed.. it doesn't look great..

 

[Joules Burn]

No. We have an SQ5 in my household that is dealership maintained. OIl and filter change costs less than $200. There's nothing exotic car about an SQ5 where oil changers are $1,000. Sorry, but I'm calling BS on that silliness.

Not necessarily BS. His experience was probably similar to mine with the SQ5. Just a quick look at some old records...

When they wanted $1,500 for the front brakes at 40,000 miles, I was done.

 

[lefkonj]

The cost for a long trip isn't the savings for an EV, it is the every day driving. At least that is how I look at it.

I pay $0.13/kwh at home, which is way lower than the cost of gas. When I have traveled I paid anywhere from $22-35 to charge my R1S but that is in the northeast where energy is cheaper than in CA.

 

[HighVoltOverland]

I think the R1S/GX470 comparison is pretty reasonable. I've also done a spreadsheet on the SCE EV rates for a friend with a Model Y. The peak rates destroyed all the possible savings compared to the standard plan. No lesson needed.

I think the GX470 would be reasonable as long as you are having it reflect the capabilities (I counted it as a lifted ‘yota)but even then it’s hard to capture the full spectrum of capacity (speed, trail behavior, storage)

is the friend having to charge only in the afternoon?
Last I saw as of 2024 TOU -Prime (SCE EV) is cheaper at every rate than regular TOU and the tiered rates only seem to benefit folks with extremely low usage

 

[Runamok]

99.2% of our trips are 100 miles or less.

https://evstatistics.com/2021/12/99-2-of-us-daily-trips-are-less-than-100-miles/

 

[TigerWuxia]

Living in California is expensive....

 

[mikehmb]

I hear ya...PG&E SUCKS.

I work in Fremont and drive from Auburn (above Roseville) 1 day a week and stay locally. I am lucky that my company has free charging (L2). We have 8 Clipper Creek chargers and they just installed 8 more BLINK chargers. So, I charge up at home to 90%, get to work, and plug-in and by the end of the day I am at about 70% then I plug in the next morning again and by the time I leave on Wednesday to come home, I am at 90% again.

Do you guys have SacMUD up in Auburn? I’m imagining not, but their rates are SO LOW compared to PG&E. Infuriating that if you live in an adjacent service area, you’re effectively paying triple for electricity. Maddening.

 

[Mike@2]

Here's a good site for calculating cost of ownership (via fuels). I used it when trying to justify buying my R1T and ditching my F-150. Tool told me that after 3 years I would be saving money.

You are also confusing how MPGe is calculated. One gallon of gasoline contains roughly 34kWh of energy so forgive me here as I know I'm close with the values but 135kWh pack / 34kWh is equal to about 4.05 gallons of gas. If max range the EPA got during testing was 300 miles then it is 74 MPGe (300 / 4.05).

If you're trying to compare MPG by cost, which I think is the goal of your post, you're going to have to do some extra math. Divide your $/gal and $/kWh, 5/0.5 = 10 kWh/gal. Now divide this rate by the capacity of the battery, 10 kWh/gal / 135 kWh = 0.074 units/gal. Finally, multiply this by the range of the vehicle, 300 miles * 0.074 units/gal = 22.22 mpg.

So by your numbers, you got better gas mileage than your 2007 Lexus GX470 with the R1S but you are correct that there isn't a lot of difference. If I were to do the same for where I'm at, I get 15.7 MPG by using DCFC but 38.2 MPG charging at home.

All in all, there are a lot of different ways to look at this and where you live has a heavy impact - both good and bad.

Something to consider the distribution and resale of electricity is a highly regulated business on the state level. For instance, in Kansas you are charged on a time base not per kilowatt hour based, so if you show up with an empty battery and a fast charging car, the cost comes down. For example on our recent 3831 mile trip from VA to Denver we charge at a station in Kansas with a low state of charge on our battery and the effective kilowatt price was $.29/kWh versus a stop later on with a relatively high state of charge it was $.59 /kWh. Our average $/kWh was $.36/kWh with an average efficiency of 2.30kWh/mile. Total cost $490 or about $0.13 per mile. Taking EPA’s weekly average gasoline cost for Dec 25th and the old trucks MPG of 21 it would have cost us about $569 or $0.15 per mile to do the trip.I think cost will change as more competition comes into the charging market and and regulators change the way pricing can be applied.

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