Tesla FSD Full Self Driving & Rivian ?

[FutureTruck]

Thoughts?

You posted something about Tesla in the most anti-Tesla forum on the internet. There's not going to be any actual discussion on the subject. It's just "Elon Bad".

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[Glembi2]

I get the benefit of cameras and radar. But why do so few manufacturers use lidar?

 

[zymolysis]

There's ballpark 100k R1's on the road. If 5% of R1 drivers take the offer, that's only $3M in revenue for each company. It's probably not worth the effort.

Probably not worth the effort, if Rivian was the only company that Tesla made a deal with. But some company had to be the first (if Tesla is to make a deal). Not saying that it will be Rivian, but I would assume that Tesla will plan to license to multiple companies.

 

[electruck]

I just drive myself. Until I can full on nap in the driver's seat, I don't care how much the vehicle can do for me.

Exactly! Having to babysit or "supervise" an Autonomous Idiot does not, in any way, make my life easier or reduce my stress. Quite the opposite, actually.

 

[electruck]

I get the benefit of cameras and radar. But why do so few manufacturers use lidar?

Cost. Until recently, the hardware had been prohibitively expensive. It was certainly one of the earliest things that Rivian dropped from the R1 platform.

 

[voxel]

Thoughts?

You posted something about Tesla in the most anti-Tesla forum on the internet. There's not going to be any actual discussion on the subject. It's just "Elon Bad".

I feel the opposite. Rivian forums are the most Tesla-friendly forums compared to other EV forums. Go to VW or BMW i4 forums and they despise everything Tesla.

Many of us have owned multiple Teslas (5 in my case) and we know the Tesla ecosystem and software pretty well. The Rivian system is basically a copy of the Tesla system including phantom braking in Driver+ and similar controls.

 

[bdwalters]

Full Self Destroying? Think those 2 already have all the market share on that.

The current version is very good but far away from perfect, I have it on my Model Y. The biggest problem is giving up the user data to Tesla. This is gold for these auto companies. If Rivian can figure out how to keep the user data from Tesla I see this being implemented.

I also don't know how you don't share the user data as this is how FSD gets better. So in short, I don't see this happening.

Rivian would have to share data to make it work on Rivians. I think they would be okay with that.

 

[Eric9610]

Rivian would have to share data to make it work on Rivians. I think they would be okay with that.

Rivian is not fine with it and that is why they implemented plug and charge at Tesla super chargers. Customer info stays with Rivian. Detailed data released on this.

User data is the most valuable thing any of these new car companies have. Your driving data is more valuable than the $$$ you spent to buy the car. Every time you drive the data is being recorded and mapped. you really think anyone hands that over for free... this is why Rivian and Tesla have not implemented Android auto or CarPlay...

 

[bdwalters]

I think FSD on my Teslas makes us safer drivers, and will gladly pay $99 monthly subscription fee. Will see what the data reveals about adoption rate as well as safety. The best part is that it gets better every 2 -3 weeks as Tesla continues to accumulate tons of data nobody else has. This is the “ moat” Tesla has created. I am old enough to know when cruise control first came out as an option, and thought to myself I would never use it. Autonomous driving is inevitable driven by AI, and consumers will demand it as the standard feature in a few years. Likely insurance and government may demand it as the standard safety features as data reveals it saves lives like seat belts. Instead of spending 10 billions of money it doesn’t have, Rivian will be better off using FSD licensed from Tesla. It will appeal to buyers who wants “Tesla Technology “ but can’t stand Elon.

The only people that think FSD is good are Tesla fanboys and people over invested in the stock. Its awful and in my usage, got in way more "near accidents" in a month than i have in my entire lifetime otherwise. Its not safer than a human by any stretch of the imagination

FSD v12 is amazing technology. I don’t own Tesla stock or worship Elon. Tesla is now hoovering up data at a massive rate, so I expect constant improvements. It’s going to be really, really good by the end of the year. I haven’t had to make any safety disengagements yet in my trial. I sometimes have to nudge it to get it going faster or signal to get it to change to my preferred lane, but that’s about it. You learn its strengths and weaknesses over time, which makes is easier to use. Self driving technology is increasingly going to become standard equipment in cars, so Rivian needs to have a plan. They don’t have the money to do this alone. Maybe their new sensor suite lines up with what Tesla has.

 

[Rgrin]

Lidar costs will come down. There are multiple vendors, so at least some competition.

Luminar is now shipping the lidar for the EX90, and has announced their next-gen Halo lidar (smaller, cheaper, less power).

Volumes are low to start, as always with new technology. But give it time.

 

[Rividiculous]

I am old enough to know when cruise control first came out as an option, and thought to myself I would never use it.

Interesting. I never use cruise control (and find the speed adjustment version even more annoying).

I like driving. If I didn’t like driving, maybe I’d like FSD in a Camry. Why have a nice car if you don’t want to drive it?

 

[f1racer328]

Interesting. I never use cruise control (and find the speed adjustment version even more annoying).

I like driving. If I didn’t like driving, maybe I’d like FSD in a Camry. Why have a nice car if you don’t want to drive it?

Some automation is great when you’re driving on a straight boring road for 10 hours in one day. Makes driving slightly less fatiguing.

I do somewhat agree though, I do enjoy driving a nice vehicle myself. I will take lane centering and cruise control on a 6 hour drive though.

 

[bdwalters]

I like ripping through winding roads myself, but I don’t mind the car handling boring highways and bumper to bumper traffic. There isn’t much fun to be had there.

 

[RedRaiderRivian]

Mercedes system level 3 is limited to certain highways with certain speed limits etc, and its hardware is too expensive for mass adoption.

Do we know how FSD + Tesla v4/5/6 compute hardware costs vs Mercedes or Rivian? Rivian is already working on the next gen hardware so that cost is already baked into the R2/R3 costs.

 

[ohseedee]

Reading lots of comments about how terrible FSD is. I’d remind folks that the FSD in cars today is very very different than the FSD in cars at the start of this year. I’ve got over 1K miles on the latest FSD during the April trial period and I’d say it’s pretty freaking great. It is pretty clear after this past few weeks that Tesla’s vision of autonomy using cameras only was the right one. While I’ve never been in a waymo or other autonomous car, there has never been a situation in the past month that my Model Y didnt see something that lidar could have. It never disengages and steering is pretty much perfect. My only gripe is how long it stops at stop signs. Also I guess the auto park (while really really good) is too slow. If they started a robo Taxi service tomorrow I’d have no issues using it over an Uber. It drives like a regular (maybe overly cautious) human.

That said, I cant see myself paying $99/month for supervised/hands on FSD on my Model Y. I care more about drivers assistance on long highway stretches vs city streets and that’s free with standard auto pilot. While I probably also wouldn’t pay for FSD on my R1T, I certainly would rather have Tesla’s autopilot assisting me on highways over Drivers+. However, once you can go hands free / eyes off I’d absolutely pay $99 month.

Ultimately I’m not sure how interested Rivian is in autonomy. I cant see them ever invest the time and resources that Tesla has. It might make sense to leverage Tesla FSD as a way to get those features early and invest in their own solution later if they choose. Similar to how they used the Bosch motors to get started but ultimately planned on phasing those out with their own.

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