Conflict at the Supercharger

[Zoidz]

Broken record, but I squarely blame Rivian for this mess by purposely not locating it's charge port on a part of the vehicle that made it compatible with both SC and Tesla home charger locations.

Their bandaid fix was the NACS adapter but they should have provided a NACS extension cable instead. Higher cost for sure although people would have gladly paid for it.

It's also easy to flip that and say that Tesla is squarely to blame for not anticipating an open network and making longer retractible cables (like Volta), wider spaces, charger positioning, etc. Regardless of the past designs and implementations, It is clear that Tesla should have addressed this problem before opening up the network. Picture is of a Tesla, but I have no problems connecting at a Volta station. This could have been done for Supercharger cables as well.

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[NY_Rob]

From my personal experience people seem to exaggerate the negative experiences at EA. I agree they are not perfect, I frequently see stalls down and EA needs to shorten the down time for them.

That being said, I have never not been able to charge at one, that includes a 5500 mile trip where I used 33 different stations around the country.

From another thread this morning, here's a few reports from the EA station at Walmart in Winslow AZ. Can you blame anyone for trying Tesla vs EA?

 

[Mathme]

Next time you're in Davis, swing by the Sacramento RAN Station, as it's only about 15 minutes from Davis.

 

[Ngkgb]

Maybe it’s time for someone to make a magnetized sticker to explain to Tesla drivers exactly what’s going on. Kind of like the Pet Mode sticker I saw.

 

[DevSecOps]

Have you ever charged in Southern California where this took place? The wait is absolutely not less, like… categorically. I would’ve done the same thing.

Yes, all the time. I basically live in Sacramento and Newport Beach. So I'm always charging down there and in between. I know that EA in SoCal can be a mess. But if you read what I said in my first post on this topic you'll see that I've said we need more etiquette at chargers. I also think that free charging as a purchase perk needs to end ASAP.

Additionally, I commute weekly for work from Sacramento to Monterey and DCFC in either my Tesla or Rivian every time (normally in Santa Nella). So I spend a considerable amount of time at these units. The issues I see, especially at EA is that people use them as parking spots when they don't need to use them (likely free charging credits), they charge well beyond 80% SOC and people don't use chargers commensurate with their vehicles charging speed (i.e. a Bolt or a MachE at a 350kw).

My point in all my posts on this topic is that we need to be considerate of others and practice proper etiquette. As more stories of people double parking, idling etc etc get out the less likely people are to want an EV. No one wants to wait to refuel. As a society we are used to getting in and out of gas stations and many people expect the same with EVs. Therefore, we should all do our part.

Edit: This didn't take place in SoCal as you claim, it took place in NorCal and I've been to that EA station many times. NorCal (valley) charging is not nearly as bad as SoCal.

 

[ddimit]

No word, as a current Tesla owner. I doubt Tesla will say anything

As a former 9 year Tesla owner, the only communication Tesla sends you is Recalls

 

[PBRAZ]

It's also easy to flip that and say that Tesla is squarely to blame for not anticipating an open network and making longer retractible cables (like Volta), wider spaces, charger positioning, etc. Regardless of the past designs and implementations, It is clear that Tesla should have addressed this problem before opening up the network. Picture is of a Tesla, but I have no problems connecting at a Volta station. This could have been done for Supercharger cables as well.

Apples and oranges. A universal charger put in at an existing mall differs from a purposely built Super Charger where density, customer turnover, and reliability are paramount.

Shorter cables are cheaper, deliver power faster, and are thinner, making them easier to handle. They are better in every way than long cables. Why Tesla didn't anticipate a world with an inferior iteration of this should be obvious.

Instead, Rivian tried to be cute and put their charge port in the worst possible location, making them incompatible not only with Super Chargers and existing Tesla home chargers, but also street side charging.

Tesla was first and engineered the best possible product. The blame is squarely on the car manufacturers for ignoring this.

 

[Bar_Down]

Its not worth engaging someone who is clearly annoyed/angry. Rather than try to explain best to apologize and tell them you will only be there for 10 minutes. Even though your 100% right...further discussion and trying to prove a point could escalate a situation.

Agree Tesla needs to retrofit chargers open to NACS with longer cables ASAP or provide an extension.

The Version 4 tesla dispensers with the longer cables are really nice. They fit a Rivian with out taking up 2 spaces. But, with all the changes there, who knows how fast they will be rolled out.

 

[Dark-Fx]

Instead, Rivian tried to be cute and put their charge port in the worst possible location, making them incompatible not only with Super Chargers and existing Tesla home chargers, but also street side charging.

Tesla was first and engineered the best possible product. The blame is squarely on the car manufacturers for ignoring this.

Very superior.

 

[LivingInKaos]

Very superior.

I was at a TSC on Saturday when a CT pulled up. He got out, plugged in, fiddled, unplugged, moved over and plugged in, fiddled, unplugged, moved again... He did this for every stall that was open. When he got to the last one, I got out and asked what was going on. He said that in the 3 weeks he's owned it, he's only been able to DCFC at a couple of chargers, errors out on him for most.

 

[Zoidz]

Apples and oranges. A universal charger put in at an existing mall differs from a purposely built Super Charger where density, customer turnover, and reliability are paramount.

Shorter cables are cheaper, deliver power faster, and are thinner, making them easier to handle. They are better in every way than long cables. Why Tesla didn't anticipate a world with an inferior iteration of this should be obvious.

Instead, Rivian tried to be cute and put their charge port in the worst possible location, making them incompatible not only with Super Chargers and existing Tesla home chargers, but also street side charging.

Tesla was first and engineered the best possible product. The blame is squarely on the car manufacturers for ignoring this.

I don't disagree with your reasoning about shorter cables. But that does not make a longer cable impractical or impossible. From my recollection of using a Tesla charger on a Tesla M3, it seems to me the cable needs to be about 3 - 4 feet longer at most to be "universal", although I could be wrong on that. That's 3 to 4 pounds. Weight nor cost is a significant factor. The fact remains that Tesla opened this up based on the existing designs and infrastructure. They knew about the problems that would result. That is not Rivian or any other EV manufacturer's fault any more than it is Telsa's fault.

That's my point and why I said one can flip the argument - there is really nobody "at fault". It just is the situation. When something changes unexpectedly and resets the paradigm in a marketplace, why is there a need to find anyone "at fault"?

 

[Dark-Fx]

I don't disagree with your reasoning about shorter cables. But that does not make a longer cable impractical or impossible. From my recollection of using a Tesla charger on a Tesla M3, it seems to me the cable needs to be about 3 - 4 feet longer at most to be "universal", although I could be wrong on that. That's 3 to 4 pounds. Weight nor cost is a significant factor. The fact remains that Tesla opened this up based on the existing designs and infrastructure. They knew about the problems that would result. That is not Rivian or any other EV manufacturer's fault any more than it is Telsa's fault.

Rivian is going to be in the same predicament once RAN is opened to all vehicles. I haven't heard of them deploying their new gen2 stations that have appropriately longer cables anywhere yet. IMO this is the biggest reason for Rivian to not open to all EVs until they can get everything updated.

It's kind of weird that Rivian originally designed everything without that in mind. But, even today on their charging page, it still says it's exclusively for Rivian owners without mention of their plan of opening to others.

 

[tobyringle]

I am on a long road trip from PHX to Blaine WA. Great RAN charging for much of the way. Kingman Az, Barstow CA, Buttonwillow CA, Santa Nella CA.
I stopped in Davis CA to visit family. Surprisingly, although Davis is a very envoronmentally conscious city, it is a void for EV charging. Lots of level 2 destination chargers, a Tesla supercharger that is not open to Rivian, 4 EA's of which only 3 work, 2 EvGo's one functional. So needing something a bit faster than what my hotel trickle charger could give me, I ventured 9 miles to Woodland to a Tesla Supercharger that was open to Rivians. It is an 8 station location across the street from a Costco. I went on a Saturday. When I got there there were 3 stations open. The layout required that I block 2 to use one. This is going to cause a lot of problems as the adapters reach the market. BTW, I bought an A2Z just for this trip and it has functioned flawlessly the 3 times I used.

Back to the Supercharger. After I plugged in there was only one station left. A Tesla pulled up next to me and I apologized and explained that the layout required me to use the cable from his charger. He said no problem and moved to the vacant station. Next guy pulls in a few minutes later. I apologize, tell him I will only be 10-15 more minutes and he says no problem and pulls out to wait for the next station. Right away a Model S with lots of flashy trim add ons pulls in. I apologize and explain the situation to the young man in the muscle shirt with his girl friend beside him. He immediately goes into a testosterone fueled rant about me having no right to be there, it's for Teslas, it's worng for me to take two chargers. I say I am sorry, can't be helped and I will be done in 10 minutes. He tells me it can be helped by getting my non Tesla POS out of there. He continues to rant at me and my non Tesla and that I have no right to do this. I politely explain that I do have a right. That Elon sold the right for me to be here charging knowing that it would take 2 stations. I say you need to complain to Elon because he's the one who sold out your exclusive use. He continues on then moves his car in a sulk. A few minutes later my 10 minutes is done and I unhook and leave, although by this time I was considering passive aggressively continue to charge way past 70%! Anyway as I pull away He continues to yell while impressing his GF.

I can certainly see how if these stations are not retrofitted with longer cables or dual side access a situation like this could escalate. A little more testosterone in the Model S and a lot more in the Rivian (I am 77) and it could well have gotten out of hand.

Sorry this happened to you. But certainly no need to apologize for all the reasons you explained. Elon took a cash grab from the Govt. while not making any effort to avoid the obvious.

 

[Plazman]

I've driven a Tesla for the last 11 years (and continue to do so), while also adding a Rivian R1S to the mix recently. So I see both sides of this situation. I personally, would NEVER take up two spots at a Supercharger that doesn't have any available spots left. That's me, and I'm not saying you shouldn't have, but remember, we're the guest here. Taking up two charging spots is not okay when there are people waiting. IMO.

 

[zymolysis]

Damn.....now I'm worried.....too bad EA (from everything I've read and seen on YouTube) sucks.

I haven't had any issues with EA, lately. I had some issues last summer - slow charge, couldn't start charge at one or more chargers, etc., but I was always able to get a charge.
There - not *everything* you've read says that EA sucks.

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