Out of Spec 10% Challenge of Gen2 R1T dual Max: Massively Negative!

[Ziggy]

PS I like Kyle's videos, and back in 2020 prepping for my first road trip in the model 3 I watched many of his video's road-tripping. Overall he's done a great job promoting EV adoption. I respect many of the negative comments however.

Also, if you're going to follow a protocol, you need to first check that the vehicle can support the protocol. Not having a functional driver's assist should have prompted a hard system restart (suggested above).

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[Rividiculous]

I think he’s a bit harsh but I appreciate Kyle’s criticisms—especially because i think they will get Rivian’s attention. I love my Gen2 R1S but I’d definitely love it more if they fix the sound system (hopefully the new update will help!) and improved charging would be a bonus. In my use case, fast charging isn’t that important but i can see how in other use case it would matter more.

One thing though: 80 mph? That strikes me as insane. Once you surpass 65, efficiency goes to hell and, moreover, it’s pretty unsafe. (Yes, when I was young and stupid I drove like that but having since noticed that no one is immortal and that car crashes are a leading cause of death….)

 

[ElGuano]

PS I like Kyle's videos, and back in 2020 prepping for my first road trip in the model 3 I watched many of his video's road-tripping. Overall he's done a great job promoting EV adoption. I respect many of the negative comments however.

Also, if you're going to follow a protocol, you need to first check that the vehicle can support the protocol.

I think he’s a bit harsh but I appreciate Kyle’s criticisms—especially because i think they will get Rivian’s attention.

One thing though: 80 mph? That strikes me as insane. Once you surpass 65, efficiency goes to hell and, moreover, it’s pretty unsafe. (Yes, when I was young and stupid I drove like that but having since noticed that no one is immortal and that car crashes are a leading cause of death….)

Agreed with all of that. I think my only real issue with it is how this test is presented as critical for EV ownership. He literally starts the video with the quote "this test is the most important test that we do." He repeats that several times in the video, and says it matters more than range, more than 0-100 charging speed, and that its importance isn't even limited to road trip situations, but to everyday driving. He says it's the "one thing that can make or break the purchasing decision for the knowledgeable EV buyer."

All I'm saying is that's a pretty tall order. It's a very specific use case that happens to be important to Kyle, which is totally fine. And as a test to run and track, it's also fine. I just think the preeminence of this scenario feels dramatically overstated, as I've never once felt I've had to top off for a few minutes with a stopwatch and then hit the highway blasting at 82mph. Am I the only outlier here? Is that how y'all drive?

 

[TwelveVoltMan]

Agreed with all of that. I think my only real issue with it is how this test is presented as critical for EV ownership. He literally starts the video with the quote "this test is the most important test that we do." He repeats that several times in the video, and says it matters more than range, more than 0-100 charging speed, and that its importance isn't even limited to road trip situations, but to everyday driving. He says it's the "one thing that can make or break the purchasing decision for the knowledgeable EV buyer."

All I'm saying is that's a pretty tall order. It's a very specific use case that happens to be important to Kyle, which is totally fine. And as a test to run and track, it's also fine. I just think the preeminence of this scenario feels dramatically overstated, as I've never once felt I've had to top off for a few minutes with a stopwatch and then hit the highway blasting at 82mph. Am I the only outlier here? Is that how y'all drive?

I agree that it is overstated. I watched a lot of Kyle's videos when shopping for an R1S. Those videos were very helpful. He has high praise for the Gen 2 standard battery and its charging curve, but for my main road trip use case, the max battery means no stops at all. I would encourage anyone shopping an R1S or R1T to play with ARBP and see what their typical road trips would look like instead of just comparing 10% challenge scores.

 

[mkhuffman]

One thing though: 80 mph? That strikes me as insane. Once you surpass 65, efficiency goes to hell and, moreover, it’s pretty unsafe. (Yes, when I was young and stupid I drove like that but having since noticed that no one is immortal and that car crashes are a leading cause of death….)

I cruise at 80 mph all the time. Literally every time I get on the Interstate. And I am far from the fastest car on the road - many people pass me. The speed limit is typically 70 mph on Interstates in VA, so that is only 10 mph over. Definitely it is not stupid or unsafe to drive that fast. And I saw people passing Kyle as he is driving 80, so he was not the fastest on the road either.

I am most interested in Kyle's next Max pack video, the highway range test. The Range wheels might only add 2-3 miles of EPA range, but I bet they make a measurable difference at 75 mph. Or 80 mph.

 

[zefram47]

If I ever take a 3000mi EV road trip as fast as humanly possible, then...sure, I'll take the Taycan over the R1. But for my own family long hauls, the "15min charge test" is just kind of a red herring. Not to cast aspersions on the test or OOS, I've just not found it particularly relevant/important in nearly a decade of owning EVs.

Definitely more of a personal take. With an EV the one thing you get that you don't with ICE is the ability to refuel while doing other things like grabbing food or using the restroom. Assuming I manage to find a charger near those amenities, it gives the advantage to the EV, but I still don't want to be waiting on the EV to finish charging so I can keep moving. With the Rivian, I'm frequently ready to leave and the truck still needs another 10-20 min.

All I'm saying is that's a pretty tall order. It's a very specific use case that happens to be important to Kyle, which is totally fine. And as a test to run and track, it's also fine. I just think the preeminence of this scenario feels dramatically overstated, as I've never once felt I've had to top off for a few minutes with a stopwatch and then hit the highway blasting at 82mph. Am I the only outlier here? Is that how y'all drive?

As above...for many, if not most, the drive is just the means to their destination and they want it to be over with ASAP. To others, the drive is part of the journey and they'll find charging stops that are worth spending some time nearby. Personally, I'll easily road trip 500-750 miles a day and have pushed to 1000 miles in a day with the Rivian. My day would've been quite a bit shorter on that 1000 miler had I been in something that charged a lot faster. Doing 500 miles with a trailer was downright painful...turning a 7 hour trip into more like 11 hours due to the need for much deeper charging while only getting 1.0-1.3 mi/kWh.

3) His criticism stems from the roadtrip-ability of the vehicle. Not everyone does 2000 mile roadtrips requiring minimal time at charging stops. I'd argue for the average shorter roadtrip, charging times are fine. You actually spend much more time waiting for a charger, especially in EV popular states like California where the public fast chargers seems always packed (esp Tesla superchargers).

See above. But also, outside California, it's more common to be waiting on the vehicle to finish charging than to be waiting in a line. I've certainly had to wait in a line during holiday travel, but I'm hoping that will happen less now that we have Supercharger access.

 

[SPITmadFIRE]

you keep power the same and double the voltage, the current will be cut in half, Ohm's law: P(power) = V(voltage) * I(current). Now look at Joule’s Law of Electric Heating, below. Since heat is proportional to the square of current over time it will be much cooler.

This sounds like a eureka moment until you realize that Joule's Law is about conductors. It has nothing to do with lithium polymer battery C rates, the heat generated by battery management systems or the battery itself, etc.

Yes, less current results in less heat in general. But everything else equal, there is absolutely no way Rivian can just rewire their cells to be an 800V pack and bring down all these charging temp issues. They will need a completely new architecture with more efficient cooling; hopefully an architecture with more than a single cooling plate.

 

[SeaGeo]

One thing though: 80 mph? That strikes me as insane. Once you surpass 65, efficiency goes to hell and, moreover, it’s pretty unsafe. (Yes, when I was young and stupid I drove like that but having since noticed that no one is immortal and that car crashes are a leading cause of death….)

80mph is the speed limit in a lot of regions.

 

[gultin]

I DCFC only a few times a year and hence much of the video isn't very relevant to me. However, in terms of what impacts me everyday, I very much second Kyle's observations on the Gen2 Rivian "Premium" Audio sounding like "mush'. I own both Gen1 (with Meridian) and Gen2 (with RPA), so I have compared them across various audio sources, tracks and genres. My conclusion was same as Kyle's, ie Gen2 RPA is currently "mush". All the EQ tweaks in the world don't make the current RPA any better to my ears. I hope Rivian can fix this via OTA very soon. If not, Rivian should refund the premium they charged for RPA, which actually sounds worse than most standard sound systems in the market.

To be clear, I'm no audiophile, but just a casual listener, and RPA sounds bad to me. I feel for audiophiles who paid up for RPA.

Feedback like this from owners (who purchased in the first place since they firmly believed in the company) is healthy in my view, as I hope it really helps galvanize things at Rivian.

 

[RivianMatt]

I’m 11 days into ownership of a Gen 2 dual max R1S after 14 months of a Gen 1 quad large R1S. Yesterday was my first road trip in the new Gen 2, traveling with my two sons from our home in Marin County (northern SF Bay Area) down to Universal Studios in Hollywood.

The ride quality is so much better in the Gen 2 than the Gen 1 it’s just ridiculous. That in and of itself made the Gen 2 worth it (weak sound system be damned).

However, I charged at two I-5 RANs on the way down and was a little surprised at the low charge speeds I was getting. In particular, what I really found interesting was that it was taking much longer to charge - maybe 10 to 15 minutes longer - than the estimate that Rivian displays on the driver display as the vehicle was charging. So when the display said I had zero minutes left to reach the 80% max that I had set….er, no.

 

[cwang089]

I DCFC only a few times a year and hence much of the video isn't very relevant to me. However, in terms of what impacts me everyday, I very much second Kyle's observations on the Gen2 Rivian "Premium" Audio sounding like "mush'. I own both Gen1 (with Meridian) and Gen2 (with RPA), so I have compared them across various audio sources, tracks and genres. My conclusion was same as Kyle's, ie Gen2 RPA is currently "mush". All the EQ tweaks in the world don't make the current RPA any better to my ears. I hope Rivian can fix this via OTA very soon. If not, Rivian should refund the premium they charged for RPA, which actually sounds worse than most standard sound systems in the market.

To be clear, I'm no audiophile, but just a casual listener, and RPA sounds bad to me. I feel for audiophiles who paid up for RPA.

Feedback like this from owners (who purchased in the first place since they firmly believed in the company) is healthy in my view, as I hope it really helps galvanize things at Rivian.

I agree with you on the audio. I have standard audio but because the shop had no premium at the time I ordered. But even then...I wouldnt pay the price they wanted for what my Gen 1 Evolution sounded like. At the time there was little info on the sound system. I tried asking live chat and the guide...none of them could tell me if the Gen 2 system was the same as the evolution.

So i just went with the standard hoping i could upgrade aftermarket. But they software lock the channels. So they give us a crap system and don't allow us to upgrade. Probably my least favorite thing about my Rivian.

Next would be the crap efficiency. I average 2.05 Miles per kw. I was hoping for like 2.5 at least compared to my X Plaid that gets 3.4 mi/kw.

I like the suspension better in gen 2 but handling is still not that great.

 

[MountainBikeDude]

Also, if you're going to follow a protocol, you need to first check that the vehicle can support the protocol. Not having a functional driver's assist should have prompted a hard system restart (suggested above).

If you're trying to paint a bleak picture of Gen 2, then you don't reset to give it that clean slate. Really, it should be representative of a customer experience, and having to reboot your vehicle shouldn't be a norm.

I didn't necessarily find his review overly harsh, it just called out his biggest gripe with his Gen 1, which unfortunately has been made worse by the Samsung 53 series cell. I can't speak to them technically, but on paper, yes they're more energy dense, but also more temperature sensitive. Biggest gripe with Rivian's running a gauntlet style road trip is the inability to normalize temps throughout the pack. If they could hit even sustained 200kW charging for 20-25 minutes or 66-83kWh delivered, that would be a good improvement

 

[AllInev]

Wow...Kyle just posted his 10% challenge test of a new Gen2 dual Max truck. Charge curve bad....driver assist didn't work....sound system horrible....heat pump noisy....build quality bad.... I've never heard Kyle struggle harder to find positive things to say.

Assuming my Rivian continues to have access to the Tesla SC Network ? during my road trips, I don't share Kyle's issues related to DC fast charging.

 

[Uncle Dude]

This is not leaving me hopeful for the R2, not going to lie.

 

[BeanEW]

Re. The seats. We have a Nov 2022 R1T and at first I found the seats too firm, borderline uncomfortable. After a few months they were broken in and now I find them perfect. Did a couple long road trips and they were very comfy.

You may want to wait a few months.

Couldn't let it go... was it the seat or your axx were broken in? ?

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