20" Nitto Recon Grappler AT tires 25% more efficient than Pirelli OEM AT! The holy grail!

[racekarl]

What I take from these threads is that driving style, the relative mix of short vs. long trips, and (possibly) HVAC use play a big role in efficiency.

Really? I have drawn the opposite conclusion: outside air temp and elevation (both contributing to greater or lesser aerodynamic drag) have a greater impact than driver behavior.

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[xeeps]

I'm in Utah and seeing decent efficiency numbers on my 20" OEMs pirellis (R1T).

 

[ksurfier]

Really? I have drawn the opposite conclusion: outside air temp and elevation (both contributing to greater or lesser aerodynamic drag) have a greater impact than driver behavior.

Agree - Thermodynamics really confuses things, I’m no expert just started noticing some patterns…

 

[SwaziCAR]

What I take from these threads is that driving style, the relative mix of short vs. long trips, and (possibly) HVAC use play a big role in efficiency.

I have drawn the opposite conclusion: outside air temp and elevation (both contributing to greater or lesser aerodynamic drag) have a greater impact than driver behavior.

Not sure these are opposites, but certainly agree many factors are at play.

 

[racekarl]

Not sure these are opposites, but certainly agree many factors are at play.

They are opposite in the sense that you as the driver can control one set (driving style, HVAC use) but not the other (weather, elevation).

 

[moonjeong]

22,364 miles on 20” OEM AT. Lifetime 1.85. My commute is 21 miles with hills around Portland so temps vary. The main takeaway for me is that it is basically impossible to control all the conditions (terrain, temperature, driving style, loading, etc.) but the OP’s comparitve data is the most valuable. Goes against my usual bias that more data points paint the real picture…

Thanks. Exactly what my point is… focus on the comparison, not on the specific tires’s data point.

 

[moonjeong]

Really? I have drawn the opposite conclusion: outside air temp and elevation (both contributing to greater or lesser aerodynamic drag) have a greater impact than driver behavior.

Well, yes. But my post was a comparison of tires holding most things constant. this post want about who is getting what efficiency from the oem 20 at tires. but it also proves that elevation and temp are really important, but not for choosing tires….

 

[dga965]

Another important factor (for me at least) is battery temperature. Typically, the first 10 miles of my commute, to or from work are terrible for efficiency, almost regardless of any other factors. I suspect that if this makes up a substantial portion of a dataset, it will dominate. Again, why IMHO the comparison suing the same conditions is more valuable than the absolute numbers.

To pull this back the the Nittos: I have to say that these were not on my radar at all. Compared to the OEM Pirelli ATs, the specs are almost identical (size, weight, 116 load index, SL, etc.) yet Nitto makes no claims as to rolling resistance or tuning for EVs. Did they accidentally design a high efficiency tire?

 

[strykerwsu]

I'm in Utah and seeing decent efficiency numbers on my 20" OEMs pirellis (R1T).

Have to love that thin air.

 

[caiudalmau]

Probably a very silly question, but how much does using Driver+ affect range? I can't imagine it draws that much energy.

I think AC and Driver+ have a marginal effect on consumption on the long run.

I'm in Utah and seeing decent efficiency numbers on my 20" OEMs pirellis (R1T).

That's crazy with the 20s!!

 

[RivianRiverRat]

I posted this yesterday in a different thread
Lifetime numbers (15 months of ownership)
All standard height all purpose in north AL and southern TN

 

[ksurfier]

I'll add what I found most useful about this thread:

1) There are so many different tire options that fit the 20" rims it's astounding...haven't counted but there are likely over 100 models with some having as many as 8 fitments!

2) The SL tire, 44 psi inflation, and 115/116 Load were not really on my radar/shortlist...the fact that a tire place highly recommended and installed one is interesting and opens the door to additional options.

3) The average person looking for a tire replacement is NOT overly concerned with efficiency, there's a smaller group that is, but on average, people want a tire that lasts longer even if efficiency suffers a bit. So the average person will likely gravitate to the OEM tire (or similar size). Some may go to a slightly heavier duty setup but still lightweight tire (48-55#), a smaller group will go to an HD off-road style like 60-ish pound Mick Thompsons or Toyo OCs.

4) There is no single tire that has/does it all, so if possible having a second set of rims is ideal. Summer/winter, or onroad/offroad, or high efficiency/low efficiency...

Thanks OP and everyone for helping me realize the different possibilities/uses/points of view. Look forward to more people taking the time to share their tire journies...

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

2) The SL tire, 44 psi inflation, and 115/116 Load were not really on my radar/shortlist...the fact that a tire place highly recommended and installed one is interesting and opens the door to additional options.

Probably not going to last as long as the LT or XL. Which means more [frequent] return business. As long as load requirements are met, from retailer POV, no foul has been committed. I'm among those leaning more towards factory-like efficiency (and TBH, most of the truck's use will be on paved surfaces and transporting not much more than myself). Rivian probably did as well in their selection of the Pirelli AT. Plus, they also figured, at R1's price point, most people aren't likely going to complain about a $450 tire that doesn't last much past 30k miles under best circumstances. We're not "most" people. We're dive deeper than most people (this thread alone is proof).

 

[moonjeong]

I'll add what I found most useful about this thread:

1) There are so many different tire options that fit the 20" rims it's astounding...haven't counted but there are likely over 100 models with some having as many as 8 fitments!

2) The SL tire, 44 psi inflation, and 115/116 Load were not really on my radar/shortlist...the fact that a tire place highly recommended and installed one is interesting and opens the door to additional options.

3) The average person looking for a tire replacement is NOT overly concerned with efficiency, there's a smaller group that is, but on average, people want a tire that lasts longer even if efficiency suffers a bit. So the average person will likely gravitate to the OEM tire (or similar size). Some may go to a slightly heavier duty setup but still lightweight tire (48-55#), a smaller group will go to an HD off-road style like 60-ish pound Mick Thompsons or Toyo OCs.

4) There is no single tire that has/does it all, so if possible having a second set of rims is ideal. Summer/winter, or onroad/offroad, or high efficiency/low efficiency...

Thanks OP and everyone for helping me realize the different possibilities/uses/points of view. Look forward to more people taking the time to share their tire journies...

Thanks!

To me, efficiency was never an issue until i started towing. A 1.1 vs. a 1.3 is a big enough difference to force a charge or not in certain legs of a trip. For example, with my old Pirellis from Atlanta to Savanna, i would need to do 4 charges, 2 of which were at 50kw/h stations. These charges added 2.5 hours to a trip. Now I only have to do 2 charges and reduce the speed in between the two charges - that hour of that trip. That’s the only reason why i care about efficiency….

One more thing - i really don’t care how much more or less the tire costs… its really just shaving time off my longer towing trips…

 

[ksurfier]

Probably not going to last as long as the LT or XL. Which means more [frequent] return business. As long as load requirements are met, from retailer POV, no foul has been committed. I'm among those leaning more towards factory-like efficiency (and TBH, most of the truck's use will be on paved surfaces and transporting not much more than myself). Rivian probably did as well in their selection of the Pirelli AT. Plus, they also figured, at R1's price point, most people aren't likely going to complain about a $450 tire that doesn't last much past 30k miles under best circumstances. We're not "most" people. We're dive deeper than most people (this thread alone is proof).

It's a bit deceptive, while someone might have an HD tire that lasts 30k miles, there's a good chance their total cost for those 30k miles is around $2,000 for the tires plus another $5,000 to $10,000 to charge the vehicle!!!! (1.6 MPK, 18,750 kwh).
On the other hand someone running a super light tire (General Grabber HTS60 [34#]) could have a tire cost of $900 for 20k miles (or $1,350 for 30k), since the tire is 2.5 MPK cost to charge is less, between $3,000 and $6,000 (12,000 kwh).

HD (1.6 MPK) tire is between $0.23 and $0.40 per mile.

SL/XL (2.5 MPK) tire is between $0.15 and $0.25 per mile.

If running conserve, the SL/XL cost can drop further.
Someone paying only $0.15/kwh with the General Grabbers has a per mile cost of only ~$0.10...

Factors to consider and why having a set of ultra light tires/rims makes financial sense....

After only 100k miles, there can be a $20,000 delta between the 2 setups....

Battery cycling/aging will also be significant, when the HD setup reaches 200k miles, cycling/aging/degradation would be equivalent to the SL/XL setup reaching 330k miles...not insignificant... (roughly speaking battery replacement cost of $0.10 per mile cost for the lighter tires vs a $0.15 per mile cost for the HD).

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