My Rivian Driver+ almost killed me

[rivianguy]

Several months ago I had an incident with Driver's Plus that came very close to taking my life. I have been working with Rivian since that time to try to get to the bottom of the issue and figure out why it happened. I would have posted about this earlier but I wanted to some answers before sharing my experience with the community. I have been a staunch advocate of the Rivian brand so this isn't a 'hate on Rivian' post but rather a fact based (at least as I recall the events) warning to those who own Rivian's and use the Drivers+ feature.

Here's the facts...

• Driving at highway speeds in southern Wyoming
• Road was straight as an arrow (no obstructions etc.) and dry pavement (not slippery etc.), weather conditions fair (no rain etc.)
• Using Drivers+
• Occasionally would take both hands off the wheel (will never do this again) until the car 'chirped' and then would put hands on wheel again

On one of these occasions Drivers+ lurched the steering wheel to the left violently (at highway speed) as if it had detected some sort of obstruction on the road (there was none, bare flat as far as the eye could see). I grabbed the steering wheel with both hands and fought as hard as I could against Driver's+ to prevent it taking me off the road at highway speed (it was trying to take me off the left side of the highway). This was not a 'passive hands off loss of control' type incident, this was absolutely fighting the fully engaged automatic steering for control. I managed through brute force to overcome Drivers+ and proceed to fishtail on dry pavement for quite some time as I fought to correct the initial engagement (which was now disengaged after I overpowered it). I can honestly say this is the closest I have ever come to dying in a vehicle.

I reported the incident to Rivian immediately and asked them to pull the telemetry on the vehicle to try to figure out what happened. I won't go into the 10 hours of calls, failed follow ups, outright lies etc. with the call center as that in itself is another sad (and quite frankly surprising) story. I will tell you however that the determination of the engineering team (after 4 months) was that it was caused by the driver (apparently according to them I initiated a sharp left turn at highway speed into the ditch as I had a death wish) All I can tell you is that factually that isn't what happened and while I understand their desire to absolve themselves of liability due to the seriousness of the incident that doesn't protect other drivers who may face the same issue. Though I remain a Rivian fan I can't in good conscience not share this experience with the community knowing what happened and that it could happen to someone else, I certainly hope it doesn't.

Should I have taken both hands off the steering wheel at any point? Absolutely not, stupid, risky and will never do so again. Does that in itself change that this system catastrophically failed and almost killed me and may kill others? Nope, not a bit.

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[Dark-Fx]

Other guy reporting this kind of a thing was in the middle of trying to unbuckle his seat belt.

I've never experienced my Rivian doing anything aggressive with the steering wheel, but I have had my Polestar try to steer me into oncoming traffic with a collision avoidance bug. If a system isn't hands free, don't ever treat it as one.

 

[kurtlikevonnegut]

I only take my hands off the wheel when I am unable to overcome the urge to air drum, but I try to limit it to a few seconds at a time and not near a concrete divider.

 

[Dark-Fx]

I only take my hands off the wheel when I am unable to overcome the urge to air drum, but I try to limit it to a few seconds at a time and not near a concrete divider.

"Alexa, play YYZ on repeat"

 

[DevSecOps]

I'm in tech and have been using various driver assist systems from Audi, VW, Tesla, Ford, Rivian, etc for over 10 years and heavily embrace them. I push them all to the limits and they all have faults. I have videos of Bluecruise taking me off the road, but they are just assist systems, and not at all meant for total control of the vehicle. Therefore, while BC took me off the road, I was always in charge to regain control.

That being said, you say it turned "violently" left and then you said you fought to remain on the road and in control. If the vehicle turned "violently" left at highway speeds you would have likely rolled it. There's no remaining in control in a situation like that. Additionally, I don't know of any ADAS system that will turn sharply. They are designed with very tight limits on how much they will turn, purposefully to avoid what you are describing. You go on to say you overcame it with brute force. Again, all ADAS systems will be overridden with slight torque applied to the steering wheel. It doesn't require brute force...

I'm not sure if you're over sensationalizing the event because it scared the crap out of you, but it just doesn't sound right. I find it more plausible that it took you to the left on accident and you over corrected because you weren't paying full attention. If in deed it took you "violently" left and you had to "wrestle" with the vehicle to regain control I suggest you file an honest complaint with NHTSA.

 

[rivianguy]

I'm in tech and have been using various driver assist systems from Audi, VW, Tesla, Ford, Rivian, etc for over 10 years and heavily embrace them. I push them all to the limits and they all have faults. I have videos of Bluecruise taking me off the road, but they are just assist systems, and not at all meant for total control of the vehicle. Therefore, while BC took me off the road, I was always in charge to regain control.

That being said, you say it turned "violently" left and they you said you fought to remain on the road and in control. If the vehicle turned "violently" left at highway speeds you would have likely rolled it. There's no remaining in control in a situation like that. Additionally, I don't know of any ADAS system that will turn sharply. They are designed with very tight limits on how much they will turn, purposefully to avoid what you are describing. You go on to say you overcame it with brute force. Again, all ADAS systems will be overridden with slight torque applied to the steering wheel. It doesn't require brute force...

I'm not sure if you're over sensationalizing the event because it scared the crap out of you, but it just doesn't sound right. I find it more plausible that it took you to the left on accident and you over corrected because you weren't paying full attention. If in deed it took you "violently" left and you had to "wrestle" with the vehicle to regain control I suggest you file an honest complaint with NHTSA.

I think that's a fair and measured response and certainly respect your point of view. The fact that I waited 4 months to post about this probably suggests that my intent isn't to 'sensationalize' the event. While it isn't beyond the realm of possibility that I am an emo who is so distraught by the incident that I'm making a bunch of stuff up, all I can tell you is the events as they happened. If you were in the drivers seat you would have experienced them the same way I did unfortunately. As far as 'there is no coming back from etc.' Well yep, there is but it was a very near thing. Fishtailing on dry pavement back and forth after the incident was the almost 'not coming back'. Again don't want to discount your feedback (it seems thoughtful, measured and well informed) but also don't want to put unicorns and moonbeams on this incident either and this is definitely a safety hazard.

 

[DevSecOps]

I think that's a fair and measured response and certainly respect your point of view. The fact that I waited 4 months to post about this probably suggests that my intent isn't to 'sensationalize' the event. While it isn't beyond the realm of possibility that I am an emo who is so distraught by the incident that I'm making a bunch of stuff up, all I can tell you is the events as they happened. If you were in the drivers seat you would have experienced them the same way I did unfortunately. As far as 'there is no coming back from etc.' Well yep, there is but it was a very near thing. Fishtailing on dry pavement back and forth after the incident was the almost 'not coming back'. Again don't want to discount your feedback (it seems thoughtful, measured and well informed) but also don't want to put unicorns and moonbeams on this incident either and this is definitely a safety hazard.

Do you have drivecam video of the event?

I'm all for making the vehicles we drive safer, but I'm also aware that a lot of people who have never experienced driver assist features will overreact to them. I've seen my passengers slam their foot on the floorboard trying to brake because ADAS systems don't coast like we would when we see slower traffic ahead. Without proof (i.e. drivecam) you're going to get a lot of skeptics, especially on this forum.

This is one example I have of an ADAS (Bluecruise) veering off the road, to the left, in reaction to an overpass shadow:

 

[rivianguy]

Do you have drivecam video of the event?

I'm all for making the vehicles we drive safer, but I'm also aware that a lot of people who have never experienced driver assist features will overreact to them. I've seen my passengers slam their foot on the floorboard trying to brake because ADAS systems don't coast like we would when we see slower traffic ahead. Without proof (i.e. drivecam) you're going to get a lot of skeptics, especially on this forum.

This is one example I have of an ADAS (Bluecruise) veering off the road, to the left, in reaction to an overpass shadow:

Do you have drivecam video of the event?

I'm all for making the vehicles we drive safer, but I'm also aware that a lot of people who have never experienced driver assist features will overreact to them. I've seen my passengers slam their foot on the floorboard trying to brake because ADAS systems don't coast like we would when we see slower traffic ahead. Without proof (i.e. drivecam) you're going to get a lot of skeptics, especially on this forum.

This is one example I have of an ADAS (Bluecruise) veering off the road, to the left, in reaction to an overpass shadow:

I think that's awesome that you have that and I certainly wish I did. Unfortunately this happened 4 months ago and to the best of my knowledge it isn't on the drivecam (though it's worth double checking) I personally have had several incidents that I felt were 'drivecam worthy' that didn't get registered so I'm not sure how much confidence i have in that system. Insofar as the skeptics go I don't waste much energy on such things. My conscience is clear in posting about the experience and my lessons learned and I'll leave it to each individual to choose to learn from my experience or not.

 

[Fencer]

There are a couple of places on I-80 in Wyoming where D+ can steer you off far enough to get your attention. First time. Then you just expect it...

 

[rivianguy]

There are a couple of places on I-80 in Wyoming where D+ can steer you off far enough to get your attention. First time. Then you just expect it...

It's funny you should mention that because it was indeed on I-80. I'm not from that area and memory is a bit hazy on the exact location (was just passing through) but it was westbound on I-80 perhaps not too far west of Rock Springs. The odd part however is that this wasn't a gradual 'correction' but a very hard (and persistent) pull to the left that I damn near wasn't able to correct.

 

[Zoidz]

While it isn't beyond the realm of possibility that I am an emo who is so distraught by the incident that I'm making a bunch of stuff up, all I can tell you is the events as they happened.

Clearly something unexpected happened, it surprised you, and Rivian should be investigating it. But I also think you are overdramatizing it with the title "My Rivian Driver+ almost killed me".

Almost wrecked? Yes. It could also be titled "I almost killed myself by driving hands free with Driver+"

 

[Nikhiluor]

not sure if it’s because of high sun exposure on camera or lane merging situation but overall my experience is very mixed with Driver+. There has been instances (2 of them) where all of a sudden it will show some weird error and disengage itself without any reasons. This technology is not yet reliable and certainly has long way to go and this has nothing to do with Rivian.

 

[Fencer]

A mapping error maybe?.. It happened to me several times last year near Rock Springs.The same spot pulling to the left. Scary first time for sure.

PS; Also the radars get confused on an arch bridge with a lot of metal angles

 

[zefram47]

I think that's awesome that you have that and I certainly wish I did. Unfortunately this happened 4 months ago and to the best of my knowledge it isn't on the drivecam (though it's worth double checking) I personally have had several incidents that I felt were 'drivecam worthy' that didn't get registered so I'm not sure how much confidence i have in that system.

Too late now, but the auto-captured 2 minute incidents are different than the DriveStream. If you have a drive connected and turn on the continuous recording, you'll get 15 min clips from all 4-5 cameras. Then you can plug the drive into your phone or a computer and pull the full clips and trim out the bits you want manually.

 

[WSea]

Other guy reporting this kind of a thing was in the middle of trying to unbuckle his seat belt.

I've never experienced my Rivian doing anything aggressive with the steering wheel, but I have had my Polestar try to steer me into oncoming traffic with a collision avoidance bug. If a system isn't hands free, don't ever treat it as one.

The one who released his seatbelt and the truck veered left into jersey barrier And ended up on side of road? Think he totaled a couple of nice bikes too. Can’t find that report

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