Range extender for R1T in the future?

[emoore]

As a customer and a shareholder, I really hope they are pragmatic and not religious about it.

It's pretty clear that the future is full EV, but the battery tech isn't fully there yet. If Rivian could procure the system from VW/Scout and if there is a demand for it.. why not? It's a huge benefit for towing, off-roading and long roadtrips. I don't think the R2 and R3 need it, but the R1 line should offer the gas range extender as an option.

Just not worth the cost and R&D for a corner case. Focus on 400 miles on R1 and put most of their money in the R2 and R3 lines.

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[Epicloop]

but the R1 line should offer the gas range extender as an option.

I think most of us that need more would be content with an optional 180kwh pack with better thermals, much simpler.

 

[M3_R2]

Scout is simply appealing to their demographic. The vast majority of reservation holders appear to have selected the range extender so they have definitely struck a chord with potential buyers who appear to be needs and range first, EV benefits second. Some have genuine needs for this, others have perhaps listened to too much FUD about BEV's.

I'm not a fan of the stated 150mi EV and 500mil with range extender breakdown. Doesn't work for me but would likely work for many. 250mil EV range would be more optimal in my mind. With 150mi you are going to be running that range extender constantly on any trips or while towing, if it can even keep up for long while towing.

Regardless how the ratio works out at launch, it seems to be very well received. I do fear there will be some that never charge and use the extender constantly. Why you would even bother in these scenarios is beyond me.

I think they have their place in the general transition to greener energy but hopefully in 10 years or so are no longer necessary due to advancements and lower cost of batteries as well as better infrastructure.

I hope Rivian does not get caught up in this somewhat temporary (in the grand scheme of things) distraction.

 

[zapp]

I'm not a fan of the stated 150mi EV and 500mil with range extender breakdown. Doesn't work for me but would likely work for many. 250mil EV range would be more optimal in my mind. With 150mi you are going to be running that range extender constantly on any trips or while towing, if it can even keep up for long while towing.

No clue where those numbers are pulled from at this point, but I agree - a "150mile battery" would be too small.

I hope Rivian does not get caught up in this somewhat temporary (in the grand scheme of things) distraction.

Rivian is still a small and hopefully agile company that needs to get profitable and stay appealing to customers. From an R&D cost perspective, they should probably not develop a gas range extender from scratch, but if they could procure an existing unit fromVW/Scout they should go for it imho.

I also see this tech as an interim solution to a problem that will ultimately be solved by better battery tech - but it'll still take a long time until this battery tech is available in a price range that makes sense.

 

[zapp]

I think most of us that need more would be content with an optional 180kwh pack with better thermals, much simpler.

The 180kwh might be ok for the long road trip scenarios - but even then.. the extended charging time and the extra weight of that bigger battery isn't ideal.

For the towing scenario, the 180kwh isn't enough.
My 135kwh R1T has about 100-120 miles usable range when towing my enclosed car trailer. This already means starting the trip with a 100% charge and driving into very low battery state. Recharging takes forever, because you need to charge up to the high % again, while blocking half of the charging site with your trailer.
A 180kwh battery charged to 100% would give you around 180miles of range, but this will not make a significant difference.
I would much rather have the 135kwh battery and a proper gas range extender which allows for a 2 minute refill stop at a gas station. Layouts of gas stations are also trailer friendly.

Relying on battery alone for towing scenarios would require at least a 300-400kwh battery, with a charging speed of 400+kw to allow for 300+ miles of usable range while having ok charging times

 

[ElGuano]

Relying on battery alone for towing scenarios would require at least a 300-400kwh battery, with a charging speed of 400+kw to allow for 300+ miles of usable range while having ok charging times

Yeah, I think towing is one of those "way outside of the curve" situations where you probably can't have enough battery, perfect for a solution like a gas range extender.

For nearly everything else, I think ~200kwh is where range anxiety just goes away. You can one-shot nearly anything, including mountain ranges, and you don't have to say "it'll get 300 miles, in perfect conditions, but only 175 if you're on a freeway, have AC running, if it's cold outside," yada yada. 400-500mi real world range and you can go where you want, decide whether you care to charge when you get there, and still have enough to go a bit more if you choose not to. That there makes for a real feeling of untethered freedom, imho.

 

[zapp]

Yeah, I think towing is one of those "way outside of the curve" situations where you probably can't have enough battery, perfect for a solution like a gas range extender.

For nearly everything else, I think ~200kwh is where range anxiety just goes away. You can one-shot nearly anything, including mountain ranges, and you don't have to say "it'll get 300 miles, in perfect conditions, but only 175 if you're on a freeway, have AC running, if it's cold outside," yada yada. 400-500mi real world range and you can go where you want, decide whether you care to charge when you get there, and still have enough to go a bit more if you choose not to. That there makes for a real feeling of untethered freedom, imho.

Yes I'm with you: A 200kwh batt would largely mitigate range anxiety for the typical longer drives.

However I don't think that for truck owners the towing scenario should be considered an edge case. I don't tow frequently so I for now I can somehow live with the limitations of my current R1T. My next truck however should really improve in that area and from all I know about current tech, the gas range extender looks like the best bet for the next 5-10 years.

 

[ElGuano]

However I don't think that for truck owners the towing scenario should be considered an edge case.

Fair point. I'm not sure what the numbers are, but a truck should definitely cater to its own audience. I recall seeing claims ranging from 75-95% for truck owners who never tow with their vehicles. It suggested to me that even most R1T or Scout buyers would probably do fine with the ~200kwh battery as opposed to the range extender. But I assume for those who actually do tow, there's zero substitute for having massive long-haul range.

 

[zapp]

Fair point. I'm not sure what the numbers are, but a truck should definitely cater to its own audience. I recall seeing claims ranging from 75-95% for truck owners who never tow with their vehicles. It suggested to me that even most R1T or Scout buyers would probably do fine with the ~200kwh battery as opposed to the range extender. But I assume for those who actually do tow, there's zero substitute for having massive long-haul range.

Good point, but in absolute numbers there is still a huge "towing market" to be addressed imho (see chatGPT screenshot). The take rate of the Scout Harvester option kind of supports that.
I feel it's also a lot about that freedom mindset you pointed out earlier. A truck should be that "do-it-all-vehicle" and the power and weight of the R1T make it an amazing towing vehicle.. ..for like 100miles

 

[dleepnw]

Don't see any reason for them to do this. The use case is very small and the number of customers who would buy it small.

 

[VandalSibs]

No clue where those numbers are pulled from at this point, but I agree - a "150mile battery" would be too small.


Rivian is still a small and hopefully agile company that needs to get profitable and stay appealing to customers. From an R&D cost perspective, they should probably not develop a gas range extender from scratch, but if they could procure an existing unit from VW/Scout they should go for it imho.

I also see this tech as an interim solution to a problem that will ultimately be solved by better battery tech - but it'll still take a long time until this battery tech is available in a price range that makes sense.

I grabbed a screenshot from an interview with RJ - I think it settles the debate on if Rivian would develop a range-extender (the question and his answer involve plug-in hybrids, but it all comes down to the same idea as gas range extenders are a form of a plug-in hybrid).

https://www.bigtechnology.com/p/rivians-ceo-on-elons-influence-the

 

[M3_R2]

It could very well be that the Scout REX ends up with a battery providing more than 150 miles but I thought that's what was stated originally and to me, that's not enough. Needs to be 2-250 miles. There's a ton of chatter about it on Scout forums but at the end of the day, it's not public information at this stage so as usual, everyone speculates.

If it was only 150 miles, I think Rivian could mop up with a REX option on a 300 mile battery pack even though they are on record as saying they would never pursue this. Clearly there are a ton of people out there that see a range extender as their gateway to EV-dom. It would definitely sell today. But apart from perhaps the Ram, there are no viable serial hybrid's out there and the Scout is a long ways out.

I'm not sure I'd want to buy one 3-5 years from now and then see the start of SSB implementations. It's a fairly narrow window when you take into account when they will be available for delivery. It might work out or it might leave some with buyers remorse as battery technology moves forward (slowly) and infrastructure continues to be built out.

There are a lot of BEV hold outs. Some for good reason and some due to FUD. The R2 should be a winner and in 5-10 years, it will hopefully be a much different and better landscape for BEV's generally. In 10+ years, I would expect the notion of range extenders to be in the rear view mirror.

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