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Regeneration Concerns

HaveBlue

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I had a day like that. It's interesting that it doesn't take much of a downhill to really bump the efficiency up. This shot was taken on a freeway with gentle decline. Earlier I was on the cajon pass and got a warning and a reduction for a short bit. Going up in the morning averaged 1.6mi/kw. Coming back 3.5 so 2.5 average for the 140mi round trip.
Rivian R1T R1S Regeneration Concerns 20231222_125348

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Joel

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This problem has been discussed in another thread. Rivian explained that the battery overheats during prolonged regen and has to turn regen off. The result of an inadequate battery thermal management system.
If this is the case then the temps on the gauges page are false. Even when I have charge below 80 or even 70% for that matter, never have I seen temps above 75 when my regen starts to be restricted. This seems like there is more here.
 

Joel

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My pa always told me never to stand between two guys in a pissing match, but some points:

1) Some more discussion and some data from @jwardell in this thread: https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/threads/r1t-limited-regen-warning-whats-normal.16460/

2) One additional complaint is that the amount of regen limiting is unpredictable too. So not only does regen turn off unexpectedly when you need it, but the level it goes to changes every time.

3) People who have not experienced this going down a steep mountain road should try it or try to imagine it before saying it's not a big deal. And besides that, it's frustrating to be wasting energy with friction brakes.

4) The cause of the limited regen warning is very weird (except for cold battery, that makes sense). jwardell points out: usually acceleration is still not limited. How can the inverters OR the battery OR any other component be overheated if full acceleration is still available?
I tried another variation the other day. Went down a steep grade in conserve achieved the infamous limited regen to the max. I switched to all purpose and immediately had all regen again. Now the interesting part is where the regen happened was still with a major front bias as speeds were below 50. So if it was an inverter limit then I still should have been limited.
 

rhumbliner

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If this is the case then the temps on the gauges page are false. Even when I have charge below 80 or even 70% for that matter, never have I seen temps above 75 when my regen starts to be restricted. This seems like there is more here.
Well there is certainly no consensus on this subject. As @mtberman pointed out, he believes it to be the inverter overheating. I would rate the reliability of my conversation with Rivian rather low even though I did get transferred to the 2nd level of support.

So whether it’s the inverter overheating or the battery overheating I just wish Rivian would fix the problem. It’s really annoying and a little dangerous.
 

Dark-Fx

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I still doubt it's the inverters since it doesn't restrict output power at the same time. My money is still on Rivian reducing regen to keep the amount of battery recharge inside of the cell specifications. Exceeding them long term can lead to lots of issues inside the cells that aren't made immediately obvious.
 

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Joel

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Well there is certainly no consensus on this subject. As @mtberman pointed out, he believes it to be the inverter overheating. I would rate the reliability of my conversation with Rivian rather low even though I did get transferred to the 2nd level of support.

So whether it’s the inverter overheating or the battery overheating I just wish Rivian would fix the problem. It’s really annoying and a little dangerous.
At this point I tend to think it’s a design miscalculation otherwise they would have fixed it. The other thing it could be is they don’t want to push it so they have less failures within warranty.
 

Blueboy67

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I've been an EV driver for 10 years and love my new "max pack" R1T. However, I have serious concerns about the break regeneration system. Specifically, the fact that regeneration is decreased so frequently and so suddenly.

For example, on a drive down the mountains from Summit County to Denver last weekend, my R1T had "decreased regeneration" for almost half the drive. It seems like a huge waste! And when I was doing 70 mph down a 7% grade and the truck sped up out of the blue, while simultaneously beeping a warning at me that the brake regeneration was decreased, it was actually dangerous.

There's also reduced regeneration basically any time the battery is over 80%. For comparison, I put 100,000 miles on a Chevy Bolt and never had any of these issues. There was decreased regeneration when the battery was at 100%, but it would be back to normal at 99% and never decrease again...even on the entire drive down I-70 from Summit County. It would gain miles and miles of range...many more than the R1T. Does Chevy just have a better battery? Better technology of some sort? Why can't Rivian accomplish with the R1T what Chevy has accomplished with the Bolt?

I'd love to see much better overall regeneration...and at the very least, a 2-second warning before decreased regeneration happens so it's not so jarring. I actually felt out of control when the truck sped up without warning (or simultaneous warning, which feels the same when driving).

Anyone have similar experiences? Any idea what can be done about it? Maybe an OTA update of some sort?
I wanted to respond to your post because we, unfortunately, are having the EXACT same issues with our new 2023 "Max Pack" Performance R1T. We live in an area (Twain Harte, California) that I suspect has similar topography and climate (foothills of the Sierra), so it's all fairly hilly and moderately chilly as well. However, we're finding that our regeneration issues don't always seem to be tied to slope gradient or temperature and can go out even on very moderate slopes in moderate-to-warm weather. Like you, I have experience with other EV's (I own a 2023 Performance Model 3). Also like you, I have never had any of these same issues with my Tesla, and the overall regeneration performance on my Model 3 is heads and shoulders better/smoother than our new R1T. There is obviously a serious issue with the new Rivian's and regen. And frankly, I was getting pretty annoyed at many of the other posters who were trying to "talk you out of" that being true. They're all wrong, and I can't see any way that this issue won't become a full recall one and/or at least an OTA that will enable the ability (like my Tesla) to bleed in regular breaking when regen is impaired or lost completely. And finally, you're not crazy: The truck actually "speeds up" sometimes when the regen cuts out; and that's a SERIOUS safety problem!
 

Blueboy67

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My pa always told me never to stand between two guys in a pissing match, but some points:

1) Some more discussion and some data from @jwardell in this thread: https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/threads/r1t-limited-regen-warning-whats-normal.16460/

2) One additional complaint is that the amount of regen limiting is unpredictable too. So not only does regen turn off unexpectedly when you need it, but the level it goes to changes every time.

3) People who have not experienced this going down a steep mountain road should try it or try to imagine it before saying it's not a big deal. And besides that, it's frustrating to be wasting energy with friction brakes.

4) The cause of the limited regen warning is very weird (except for cold battery, that makes sense). jwardell points out: usually acceleration is still not limited. How can the inverters OR the battery OR any other component be overheated if full acceleration is still available?
Yes, we have definitely experienced the "unpredictable level" of regen as well, and it is surely disconcerting as it happens around our hilly driving area. It goes out, it goes less, it's too harsh/strong at low speeds, we feel acceleration. I don't know what's causing these problems, but it's definitely a safety hazard for people who live and drive in our kind of hilly areas.
 

Zoidz

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I wanted to respond to your post because we, unfortunately, are having the EXACT same issues with our new 2023 "Max Pack" Performance R1T. We live in an area (Twain Harte, California) that I suspect has similar topography and climate (foothills of the Sierra), so it's all fairly hilly and moderately chilly as well. However, we're finding that our regeneration issues don't always seem to be tied to slope gradient or temperature and can go out even on very moderate slopes in moderate-to-warm weather. Like you, I have experience with other EV's (I own a 2023 Performance Model 3). Also like you, I have never had any of these same issues with my Tesla, and the overall regeneration performance on my Model 3 is heads and shoulders better/smoother than our new R1T. There is obviously a serious issue with the new Rivian's and regen. And frankly, I was getting pretty annoyed at many of the other posters who were trying to "talk you out of" that being true. They're all wrong, and I can't see any way that this issue won't become a full recall one and/or at least an OTA that will enable the ability (like my Tesla) to bleed in regular breaking when regen is impaired or lost completely. And finally, you're not crazy: The truck actually "speeds up" sometimes when the regen cuts out; and that's a SERIOUS safety problem!
The next OTA is introducing blended braking with Regen.
 

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Cascadian

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What I don't get is why they don't blend the friction brakes to simulate regen when normal regen is limited. Genuine safety concern when I barrel down a hill and all of a sudden I ACCELERATE towards the car in front of me. The first time that happened, it was unnerving. They normally hide the weight of the vehicle really well, but with regen limited it felt like I was in a tank about to careen off a mountain road at 50 mph...
I’m not convinced it is that dangerous, though it is certainly unnerving, unless you are following too close. I cannot believe that any acceleration due to gravity alone would be large enough that you would not have time to react.
I understand how you feel though. When returning home in my Volt I have to do a left turn on a steep hill. Just before the turn there is a very bumpy section. If I brake on those bumps most times the abs activates and the regen is turned off. It feels like the car is accelerating, but it’s really a sudden reduction in deceleration. I have to apply significantly more brake pressure.
Rivian can do better. This is all controlled by software. They could program for a more progressive reduction in regeneration.
 

Blueboy67

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I’m not convinced it is that dangerous, though it is certainly unnerving, unless you are following too close. I cannot believe that any acceleration due to gravity alone would be large enough that you would not have time to react.
I understand how you feel though. When returning home in my Volt I have to do a left turn on a steep hill. Just before the turn there is a very bumpy section. If I brake on those bumps most times the abs activates and the regen is turned off. It feels like the car is accelerating, but it’s really a sudden reduction in deceleration. I have to apply significantly more brake pressure.
Rivian can do better. This is all controlled by software. They could program for a more progressive reduction in regeneration.
I disagree: I do think it's both "unnerving" and legitimately dangerous; moreover, I feel like our R1T actually does "accelerate" forward at times, as opposed to just feeling the difference of no regen in action. In any case, I surely hope the upcoming 2023.50 OTA update will make this whole post moot, or at least less relevant.
 

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I am on a long road trip currently and I have experienced it every day. It kicks in at about the same time on a given hill, regardless. And then you take off downhill and have to use the brake pedal. No other EV does this. It’s lame.

At lower states of charge below 50%, the reduction in braking is less.
 

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I disagree: I do think it's both "unnerving" and legitimately dangerous; moreover, I feel like our R1T actually does "accelerate" forward at times, as opposed to just feeling the difference of no regen in action. In any case, I surely hope the upcoming 2023.50 OTA update will make this whole post moot, or at least less relevant.
I don’t think it accelerates at all when your foot is off the go pedal. That doesn’t make sense.

I’ve been driving my R1T for a year now and have never felt limited regen has felt unsafe.
 

Blueboy67

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I don’t think it accelerates at all when your foot is off the go pedal. That doesn’t make sense.

I’ve been driving my R1T for a year now and have never felt limited regen has felt unsafe.
Well, that's very fortunate for you; unfortunately, not the case for us.
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