Rivian offering preorder price difference vouchers for remaining price protected pre-order holders

[Big Dog]

Well chase can suck it first off. And second, is this information relevant if you plan on buying out the lease immediately?

I'm not entirely sure... doing the lease and then purchasing it immediately, I think only gets you the advantage of utilizing the tax credit immediately, instead of going down the tax refund route... but I don't know for sure.

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[aw113sgte]

Sure don't have a lot of options let in the store, people snapping them up.

 

[Syrarch04]

I did compare the estimated lease payments between MSRP and a 20% Voucher. It was $144 (aka 15%). That was the first red flag... if the residual isn't adjusted, the voucher went from 20% to 5%... if you take the lease option.

That's a beautiful sleight of hand if that's how things shake out. I get they're a business, but you don't stay in business being opaque... and it just seems like that is Rivian's M.O. on a lot of things. I really want my R1T after having waited so long... but, gotta admit, I'm starting to waiver ...

This touches on my current annoyance and my guide doesn't seem to understand the mechanics of leasing well enough to answer my questions on this. If I look at the same truck logged into my account to have the preorder discount applied, compared to logged out, the the monthly lease payment is about $183 difference. This varies based on the exact vehicle/MSRP, but there's a bug in the system (though I think it's a completely intentional MF adjustment to net them more income). If I apply the same exact discount (19,650 in this case) to the same truck logged out, it's 403/mo, logged in it's 796/mo. Same truck, same cap cost reduction, same EV lease credit, vastly different payments. After being strung on for years, it would be nice if Rivian could stop messing with reservation holders.

 

[Supratachophobia]

This touches on my current annoyance and my guide doesn't seem to understand the mechanics of leasing well enough to answer my questions on this. If I look at the same truck logged into my account to have the preorder discount applied, compared to logged out, the the monthly lease payment is about $183 difference. This varies based on the exact vehicle/MSRP, but there's a bug in the system (though I think it's a completely intentional MF adjustment to net them more income). If I apply the same exact discount (19,650 in this case) to the same truck logged out, it's 403/mo, logged in it's 796/mo. Same truck, same cap cost reduction, same EV lease credit, vastly different payments. After being strung on for years, it would be nice if Rivian could stop messing with reservation holders.

But is the car actually costing less and they are fudging with the monthly payments by adjusting the residual and interest rate?

 

[Syrarch04]

In this example the truck is 98,250. If I didn't have my original reservation that's the price, minus the 7,500 EV credit, netting a price of 90,750. With the discount applied, 19,650 in this case, plus the EV credit, the net price is 71,100. It seems they have two different money factors - one for current price lessees, and a much higher one for reservation holders that use the discount.

I understand it's a business, and this may be coming from Chase, not Rivian, but it still sucks after waiting this long to feel like they're quietly trying to prevent some truly excellent payments. Typically, depending on MF, every 1k down is usually worth a monthly payment reduction of 25-30/month. If the discount is being treating like cap cost reduction, as has been said, the 19,650 discount above should translate to 490-590/mo reduction in payment from a zero down scenario. I understand that's a bit extreme, so they're messing with residual or MF, but to me, they've gone too far when a nearly 20k discount only nets a reduction of less than 200/mo.

 

[Supratachophobia]

In this example the truck is 98,250. If I didn't have my original reservation that's the price, minus the 7,500 EV credit, netting a price of 90,750. With the discount applied, 19,650 in this case, plus the EV credit, the net price is 71,100. It seems they have two different money factors - one for current price lessees, and a much higher one for reservation holders that use the discount.

I understand it's a business, and this may be coming from Chase, not Rivian, but it still sucks after waiting this long to feel like they're quietly trying to prevent some truly excellent payments. Typically, depending on MF, every 1k down is usually worth a monthly payment reduction of 25-30/month. If the discount is being treating like cap cost reduction, as has been said, the 19,650 discount above should translate to 490-590/mo reduction in payment from a zero down scenario. I understand that's a bit extreme, so they're messing with residual or MF, but to me, they've gone too far when a nearly 20k discount only nets a reduction of less than 200/mo.

Interesting, so the cap cost really is -7500 and -20%, but the "interest rate" and the residual are different, less favorable, towards voucher holders?

 

[Syrarch04]

As far as I can tell, yes. I asked my guide to connect me with someone on the financial side, since it would be nice to discuss with someone who can answer these questions directly. Nothing against the guide, she's great, it's just not her department. We'll see if that happens though...

 

[b_ack51]

As far as I can tell, yes. I asked my guide to connect me with someone on the financial side, since it would be nice to discuss with someone who can answer these questions directly. Nothing against the guide, she's great, it's just not her department. We'll see if that happens though...

Agree. I started the lease application process for the R1S. A few things I noticed so I haven't signed.

This is everything from Rivian site:

• Vehicle Price: $98,250.00
• Voucher 20% + Paint Discount brought it to $76,850
• Advertised Lease (before paint discount) was $537 (excluding fees and taxes) w/ $7k down payment

When I look at the lease info for 0 down provided by Chase. (have not seen MF or RV). This is for a 2023 that is supposed to be "save $70 a month".

• Vehicle Price is $92,050 (not sure where this came from but it's about a 6.31% discount off msrp)
• Due At Signing $4,630.61
• Monthly Payment: $654.77

I just checked back into the Rivian site and it's showing:

• Subtotal: $98,250.00
• Premium Exterior Discount-$1,750.00
• Preorder Leasing Promotion-$6,250.00
• Vehicle Subtotal: $90,250

When I find a comparable 2024 R1S without logging in to see the discounted price.

• Vehicle Price $92,000
• Due At Signing (approximately) $5,549
• Monthly Payment: $904 before taxes/fees (if I take the $70 off for getting a 2023 then payment would be $834)

Either way difference in price is less than $200 a month if I look at that 2023 discount vs 2024

 

[Yossarian]

That's good to know! Any idea what the MF and residual are? When I plug a 20% cap cost reduction + $7,500 tax credit + $7,000 down payment with 0.00262 MF and 67% residual(found on Reddit) into a calculator, I get a much lower monthly payment than is shown in shop.

The Rivian email that I received stated the following relative to a lease:
"Very well qualified lessees who take delivery on or before 4/30/2024 can lease a new MY 2024 Rivian R1S Standard Adventure Package for 36 months with 30,000 total miles for $486 per month. To obtain a payment of $486 per month, vehicle pricing before dealer options must total $76,700 comprised of the following vehicle selections: Dual Motor AWD, 21” wheels, LA Silver paint, Black Mountain interior ($74,900) + destination fee ($1,800).

$8,381 DUE AT SIGNING. Cash due at signing includes $7,000 capitalized cost reduction (includes $1,000 deposit), $486 first monthly payment, $895 acquisition fee, and $0 security deposit. Tax, title, license, registration, and lessor documentation fees are additional fees due at signing.  Not all customers will qualify for security deposit waiver. Offer includes upfront capitalized cost reduction of $7,500 provided by the lessor. "

I'm not an accountant, but working backward from those numbers seems to indicate a much higher MF:
MSRP - $76,700
Cap cost reductions - $29,840 (20% discount of $15,340 plus IRA tax credit of $7,500 plus buyer contribution of $7,000)
Capitalized cost - $46,860
Residual value (55%) - $42,185
Lease charge - $17,496 ($486/mo as above)
MF - 0.005458 - (Lease charge/(Cap cost + RV)* lease term)
Implied interest rate - 13.1%

If we take the email example literally (no pre-order discount) with cap cost reductions consisting only of the IRA credit and buyer contribution ($7,500 + $7,000), the capitalized cost becomes $62,200, and the MF changes to 0.004356 (11.2%). If we adjust the residual value upward from 55% to 67%, this changes the RV from $42,185 to $51,389, and the MF becomes 0.004279 (10.3%)

As I said, I'm not an accountant, so my calculations may be suspect, but if they're correct, the MF in the Rivian lease is quite a bit higher than what you ususally see.

 

[RivianuserR1T]

So, based on what I am seeing here, the right move is to take the lease to lock in the tax credit and then immediately buy the car out?

 

[Riviot]

So, based on what I am seeing here, the right move is to take the lease to lock in the tax credit and then immediately buy the car out?

TBD, but that's the assumption. We need to see actual financial paperwork for a voucher user getting a lease.

I'll admit, it's very annoying for Rivian to string along and shrug without answers until you commit to either Purchase or Lease. At least with the Toyota dealer, we saw financials up front and could make an informed decision.

Someone's gotta take a bullet for the rest of us!

 

[b_ack51]

So, based on what I am seeing here, the right move is to take the lease to lock in the tax credit and then immediately buy the car out?

Depends on your situation.

Pre-price hike holders who signed the binding agreement, a dual motor standard at $59k then minus tax credit is pretty nice for those who don't care about the factory closing and want to own the vehicle for awhile (finance rates are high). The discount voucher is 20% or even 21%.

Quad leases are better than Dual Motor right now if you think an update is coming soon or if you want to move to the R2. Lease will put the $7500 towards the lease, but the discount voucher (from my deal only 6-7% off) is only $6k towards a lease.



I clicked lease so I'm pretty pissed right now the price voucher for financing at 20% went to a lease promotion of approximately $6,250 which is 6-7% off msrp. I'm seeing a total monthly payment of 765.21 (total cost of lease / 36 months) for 10k miles a year on a 2023 $98.2k R1S.

I still have not been shown the MF or RV yet even at the signing contract part of the deal. I've contacted both my guide and inside sales, nothing for over 24 hours.

 

[BabyCarrot]

Depends on your situation.

Pre-price hike holders who signed the binding agreement, a dual motor standard at $59k then minus tax credit is pretty nice for those who don't care about the factory closing and want to own the vehicle for awhile (finance rates are high). The discount voucher is 20% or even 21%.

Quad leases are better than Dual Motor right now if you think an update is coming soon or if you want to move to the R2. Lease will put the $7500 towards the lease, but the discount voucher (from my deal only 6-7% off) is only $6k towards a lease.



I clicked lease so I'm pretty pissed right now the price voucher for financing at 20% went to a lease promotion of approximately $6,250 which is 6-7% off msrp. I'm seeing a total monthly payment of 765.21 (total cost of lease / 36 months) for 10k miles a year on a 2023 $98.2k R1S.

I still have not been shown the MF or RV yet even at the signing contract part of the deal. I've contacted both my guide and inside sales, nothing for over 24 hours.

I'm in the same situation on my lease. 6% off MSRP is pretty disappointed. My guide has no response. How do you contact inside sales?

 

[DH0]

I'm in the same situation on my lease. 6% off MSRP is pretty disappointed. My guide has no response. How do you contact inside sales?

I'm not surprised. Part of the rationale for offering lease deals to the remaining preorder holders is to get them to split the savings, i.e. the customer saves money short term on the lease, Rivian saves $ long term by not selling as many R1s 15–20k under MSRP. The tax credit also plays into it. Since everyone gets it if they lease, Rivian doesn't need to provide as much of a discount to get to breakeven with an outright purchase (provided the purchaser doesn't qualify/doesn't have a 2022 binding agreement).

 

[Headingley]

So long and thanks for all the fish! My Rivian journey began in 2020 and has effectively ended with this announcement. All I got was this lousy email and my pre-order piece of artwork (remember that?)

Wish Rivian well. I will revisit in a decade or so, in the meantime I will enjoy my new Tesla (my first EV).








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