Top 5 Reasons Switching to a Tesla Dominated NACS Standard is a Colossal Mistake for the Consumer

[stamps]

Point me to a single 1000v Telsa Supercharger in the 17,000+ Superchargers in operation in the US.

Also point me to a single working demonstration of a theoretical maximum that Tesla has claimed.

Elon Musk claims shit that never comes to fruition.

See Cyber Truck.

Your right, they arn't here yet, but they are in places where people don't complain as much.
https://www.notateslaapp.com/news/1269/tesla-v4-superchargers-power-design-and-cable-length-revealed

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[SASSquatch]

Your right, they arn't here yet, but they are in places where people don't complain as much.
https://www.notateslaapp.com/news/1269/tesla-v4-superchargers-power-design-and-cable-length-revealed

You do realize that those Tesla V4 Chargers use CCS because they are in Europe, right?

 

[COdogman]

Your right, they arn't here yet, but they are in places where people don't complain as much.
https://www.notateslaapp.com/news/1269/tesla-v4-superchargers-power-design-and-cable-length-revealed

All that proves is Tesla can make reliable chargers that use CCS as a connector

 

[stamps]

You do realize that those Tesla V4 Chargers use CCS because they are in Europe, right?

If they are making v4's in Europe, America is next. The American version may not carry 600kw capability but wouldn't you expect it to still be better than a v3? Otherwise why make a v4. There's less than a 0% chance that Tesla is going to stop improving it's American charging network and just leave everyone stuck with v2 and v3 superchargers. That's my only point

 

[COdogman]

This post is dumb on so many levels. It reads as wild anti Musk/Tesla Hysteria. North america is about to have the best most reliable charging system the world. One that is an open standard and not controlled by Elon Musk. Rivian will either be a part of it or will fade away into obscurity.

So you have talked to Elon and know for a fact he plans to relinquish the patents to the connector and port to an independent body?

 

[stamps]

So you have talked to Elon and know for a fact he plans to relinquish the patents to the connector and port to an independent body?

If Elon's going to produce a Cybertruck with a 900v architecture he better have a plan to also charge at it's capacity. Both will most likely be released at the same time - kind of makes sense. Probably not till 2025, just guessing

 

[SoCalTravels]

This entire thread makes me want to go back to a gas powered car altogether. 🫣

 

[SASSquatch]

If they are making v4's in Europe, America is next. The American version may not carry 600kw capability but wouldn't you expect it to still be better than a v3? Otherwise why make a v4. There's less than a 0% chance that Tesla is going to stop improving it's American charging network and just leave everyone stuck with v2 and v3 superchargers. That's my only point

What Tesla does in Europe has no bearing in the US. Totally different markets.

That said, Elon Musk will improve charging infrastructure in the US to the extent that it is profitable. He already has stated it is not worth the cost to go from 400v to 800v. I wouldn't hold your breath on that.

 

[milliemc]

Top 5 Reasons Switching to a Tesla Dominated NACS Standard is a Colossal Mistake for the Consumer

1.) It will limit innovation: Tesla's system, by design, is limited to 500v. CCS can support 1000v architecture. All of these companies developing 800v architecture for their next generation models, including Rivian, would effectively be forced to go back to 400 or 500v. That means that you will have a significantly slower charging speed vs. a comparable CCS system.

*Edit 1: As others have pointed out, the NACS system has a theoretical capability to achieve 1000v but there are no existing working Superchargers that have this capability and Elon Musk has repeatedly stated Tesla has no plans to support an 800v architecture. The issue is, Elon Musk and Tesla would have undue influence in deciding future architecture if they are allowed to immediately corner the NACS charging market, which they would, if everyone just switches to NACS.

*Edit 2: Even though NACS theoretically has the capability for bi-directional charging, meaning you can charge your home in case of a power outage, Elon Musk has stated he doesn't support that and has no plans to ever implement that. Tesla would be in a position to dictate new features if they control the NACS charging infrastructure.

2.) It will cost more: Elon Musk wants to make money off of you, and the OEMS could care less: Please remember this fact. Non-Tesla vehicles are charged significantly more for using a Supercharger than native Tesla owners. That will never change.

3.) It will create a tiered class system: Tesla will always, and I mean always, prioritize its own customers when it comes to user support and user experience. This is the only way they will incentivize future owners to buy Tesla in the future. When the proverbial shit hits the fan, Tesla will turn around and blame the OEM for not implementing a software change, or hardware update, etc. Welcome to the world of Apple (Tesla) vs. Android (CCS).

4.) It will create a degraded and inefficient user experience: All existing Tesla Superchargers are designed with cabling, stall positions, and architecture for Tesla vehicles. Non-Tesla vehicles do not have the ports in the correct position which means you can either not charge at all, or you have to block another charger by positioning your non-Tesla vehicle at an awkward angle. If your vehicle supports 800v architecture like the Kia EV6, you will have significantly decreased charging speed. This cannot be easily addressed by an adapter.

5.) It invites a madman into your vehicle: You are allowing Elon Musk, purveyor of chaos and who IMHO single handedly destroyed Twitter to control your charging experience. Elon Musk will always prioritize his interests and the interests of Tesla. Irrespective of any agreements, all other OEMs are competitors. Imagine the information he can obtain from your vehicle, driver history, specifications, charging curves, etc. by controlling the charging experience. He will absolutely use that information to the advantage of Tesla and to the detriment of every other OEM.

Edit 3: Changed title to better differentiate Tesla monopoly vs NACS standard

Well, as a Tesla owner since 2020 we have had nothing but easy and fast charging experiences here in NM and nearby. And yes, Musk is on the Autism Spectrum-he is forthright about this--so he is not always operating in the most socially appropriate way, BUT his products work. Al the UTube videos I have watched posted by frustrated users of other charging systems shows how poorly manufactured and maintained other charging systems are. It seems some businesses are run by sloppy and lazy folk. One thing Musk is not, is lazy. He seems to want his products to be well done. Our Model 3 had given us NO problems and is easily accessed and drives, mostly, like a dream.

 

[MXA121]

(1) OTHER Chargers allowed to use the NACS Connector: Good
+ Gives Teslas more places to charge and promotes Charger competition, allows other Car Mfg to consider adoption

(2) OTHER Car Mfg adopting the NACS port: Good
+ It's smaller, lighter, and easier to use. It also locks to vehicle while charging and is capable of high speeds, and as we've seen from Ford/GM they will have access to Tesla Superchargers (a requirement for this to work at all)

(3) TESLA Superchargers working with OTHER CAR MFG: Good
+ Gives other car owners access to a large reliable charging network when they need it and promotes Charger competition.

(4) Worrying endlessly about what-if Musk statements: Priceless

 

[milliemc]

This entire thread makes me want to go back to a gas powered car altogether. 🫣

It's just one opinion.

 

[2025R1S]

We’ve been over this already. The issue is the port, remember the conversation? CCS2 is more ADA friendly than CCS1.

CCS1 is trash and used in North America
CCS2 is what North America should have had all along.


It is most definitely the port, along with the reliability and durability of the port.

Europe isn't doing anything. They could absolutely care less what we do in the US. They have the largest EV market share in the world and they forced standardization to CCS years ago across their infrastructure. All Tesla's in Europe use CCS. They also have a standards body - and the charging experience in Europe is hands down better than the US all with CCS architecture.

The issue isn't the port - it is how you standardize the user experience which is what the WH is doing with Billions in NEVI funding.

 

[SASSquatch]

Well, as a Tesla owner since 2020 we have had nothing but easy and fast charging experiences here in NM and nearby. And yes, Musk is on the Autism Spectrum-he is forthright about this--so he is not always operating in the most socially appropriate way, BUT his products work. Al the UTube videos I have watched posted by frustrated users of other charging systems shows how poorly manufactured and maintained other charging systems are. It seems some businesses are run by sloppy and lazy folk. One thing Musk is not, is lazy. He seems to want his products to be well done. Our Model 3 had given us NO problems and is easily accessed and drives, mostly, like a dream.

Hi there. I think you missed the point of my post. I'm glad you've had a great experience as a Tesla customer. This post is about whether the entire automotive industry should adopt a charging standard that was designed by, for, and is exclusive to Tesla.

Many of us believe that the charging standard that is adopted across the industry shouldn't be heavily controlled by a single private entity that actually competes with all other manufacturers.

I am glad that you have a great experience. As a non-Tesla owner, I want my charging experience to be just as good as yours and I don't trust that Elon Musk and a company competing with all other companies can be trusted to not make my experience worse - either by charging me more, slowing down my charging, or preferentially treating Tesla customers for charging availability.

 

[SASSquatch]

We’ve been over this already. The issue is the port, remember the conversation? CCS2 is more ADA friendly than CCS1.

CCS1 is trash and used in North America
CCS2 is what North America should have had all along.


It is most definitely the port, along with the reliability and durability of the port.

CCS1 and CCS2 are different flavors of CCS technology that differ geographically.

Also, you are confusing the shitty experience you have because CCS providers in the US are terrible with the actual port. The port has nothing to do with it.

If the ports were switched and Tesla actually used CCS and provided a great experience and EA and others used NACS and provided the same shitty experience, would you then support CCS?

It's the provider. Not the port.

 

[s4wrxttcs]

This post is dumb on so many levels. It reads as wild anti Musk/Tesla Hysteria. North america is about to have the best most reliable charging system the world. One that is an open standard and not controlled by Elon Musk. Rivian will either be a part of it or will fade away into obscurity.

You say the OP is anti-Musk hysteria, but what evidence is there that we should trust Musk? He misleads people all the time, and sells things that don't exist.

I think having a little skepticism when it comes to Musk is healthy.

We're in agreement that the Tesla Superchargers is vastly superior to any other fast charging system in North America. Considerably more plentiful than Rivians RAN chargers, and vastly more reliable than EA. But, they alone can't meet the fast charging needs of so many EV's. Especially in places like California.

We also don't want them to be alone because a single provider will charge a lot for a charge as they have no competition.

I do hope that NACS is truly an open standard where we have other manufactures of supercharger equivalents. But, there is no promise that they'll be as reliable as Tesla Superchargers.

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