Walmart’s upcoming charging network plans & first charge experience / review

[theonetruestripes]

43 minutes?! Tldw please.

WalMart is going to install Alpatronic and/or HBB chargers in multiple thousands of its 10k locations by the end of this decade (but may qualify other equipment if Alphatronic or HBB can’t build enough). They plan on being a value leader, but maybe not the cheapest charger in any given area. They will not have flat rate or national rate charging, local rates only. They will be installing CCS1 and NACS in all locations (initially 50/50, but Walmart thinks of their charger solution as “native NACS with CCS as needed”, and will adjust the ratio over time)..

They are looking at putting fairly large numbers of chargers at locations (they didn’t talk specific numbers, but “higher stall counts then legacy charger companies” makes me think they are at least talking Tesla numbers not EA numbers). Anywhere they do an install they are pulling conduit for substantially more chargers then they are installing so they can rapidly grow any given site to meet “unexpected” demand.

Sites have at least one ADA Handicapped “use last”, or in some locations “handicapped only” space.

Some pull through/trailer friendly charging.

So that’s all the “good stuff”.

To ruin it all they only support charging via the Walmart app, you will need to scan an on screen QR code, so no plug n’ charge, and no real way to use the chargers if someone busts the display (so it may be as fragile as Electrify America’s chargers).

They plan on having chargers in a well lit area maybe front n center on the stores (good on the lighting, not so good on putting it where ICEVs will *want* to park) (maybe 200’ from the main entrance)

They also plan on having store employees trained to offer charging assistance, no word on weather that will include getting ICEV’s kicked off of charge spaces, my pessimistic guess is “nope”.

Agreed, showed there was no need for government mandates and $7B since the private sector has and can support this and be more nimble.

I have no evidence, but my personal theory is that the NEVI funds ended up begin forcing function making Elon/Tesla firm up the requirements on what other EV makers would need to do to adopt NACS, and made Form and GM think he was serious and not BSing. Once Ford & (and to a lesser extent) GM announced they were adopting NACS the other automakers gave up J1772 pretty fast (in terms of future plans, in the real world well it has been a few years and mostly we are still at the adaptor stage not the NACS built into the majority of cars stage).

So my contention is that the “bait” of $7B in build out money got us to align on NACS. It is also my contention that without being aligned on NACS private companies would be less excited about building out charging networks, after all Teslas were the overwhelming majority of EVs on the road (and sales until recently), so not getting access to that market makes it a lot less attractive. (counter argument: NACS chargers have to compete with Tesla’s SuperCharger network, which is hard to do, so while having to compete with the SuperCharger networks is great for customers it isn’t really a great deal to charge network operators)

Ionna - Walmart. Let’s think. Who has the space, capital and consumer research data to do this, now?

Walmart, if they really want to. I don’t think EV charging will bring them the touch direct revenue. On the other hand if EV drivers who end up charging at Walmart for half an hour or so end up buying things at Walmart that wouldn’t have otherwise gone to Walmart that could make these very valuable for Walmart (i.e. contributing to the core business).

Doesn’t help me much. One of the worst things about charging in early ‘22 was having to go to EA stations at Walmarts. They are all a good distance off the freeway and the sites are all small and didn’t work well.

They are clearly looking at installing more chargers per site then EA did. None of that addresses the location issue. If Walmart is too far from the freeway for you, it is too far. Some of them are “just” a mile or two, but that isn’t the same as directly off the exchange. That won’t change in the short term (Walmart won’t move stores for this), and it won’t change in the long term (Walmart’s are just too big to fit where freeway services stations go). On the other hand, even if all Walmart gives you is a “second best location to travel to if the chargers located where you wanted are down”, that is still rather a lot.

I'm surprised by the positive responses. Yes, more chargers are a good thing. I just finished a 3000 mile road trip and can't understand why chargers aren't just like gas stations, i.e. Just off the highway, open 24 hours, canopy over station, window wash, pull thru, garbage cans, convenience items and clean bathrooms available to everybody. Walmart was everything but this. A real pain to slog through traffic to get to. Not open at 5am, nothing close to walk to, got rained on and no garbage cans or window wash. How is this an improvement?

You may be living higher on Maslow's hierarchy then most.

If your primary concern is getting plugged in without getting rained on a canopy is vital. If your primary concern is charging somewhere a auto dealership hasn’t blocked with unsold inventory or where it turns out a charger has been broken for eight months and it surely isn’t going to get fixed while you wait...well getting more chargers installed somewhere vaguely on your route would be valuable, even if they aren’t offering the amenities you want.

I’m not a big fan of the Walmart shopping experience, but more chargers on my route? Yes please, and thank you! Especially theoretically reliable chargers? Yup, yup, will take. Ok, maybe if I’m driving at 3am I won’t be thrilled that there is no accessible bathroom, but still better to park where I have to cross my legs for a half hour (or stop at an actual gas station or an all night diner first) then to have no charger at all.

We aren’t evaluating Walmart’s plans in a world where “more then enough chargers exist everywhere, and new ones need to meet a very specific set of needs to have any value”.

(which is not to say they don’t meet a specific set of needs, they might be ideal for customers that don’t own their own homes and live somewhere with no convent charging, but shop weekly or more frequently at Walmart -- that is less likely to be owners of $70k-$200k adventure vehicles, then owners of a $20k slate, but we can still get value from having these chargers sites exist)

Also if they don’t meet your needs, they may well take a load off of the chargers that do meet your needs. My closest Walmart is two towns north, the same town has 2 DC Fast chargers in a gas staton parking lot, and 2 more in a GMC dealership lot. The GMC lot has a lot of plug share entries nothing the were charging a floor model, or a customer vehicle and the other spot was ICEd so no luck. The gas station had a years long span of “charger broken, gas station employees claimed it has never worked, used the J1772 in the same lot for 45 minutes to get enough range to get to my backup charger...” before suddenly starting to work in 2024.

So if you want to charge at a gas staton which has roller dogs and a bathroom 24/7 you can head to those 2 chargers. If the Walmart has 6~12 chargers less then 2 miles away some people who would have been competing for those 2 chargers will have gone to the Walmart. Good for you. If it turns out those two chargers are both in use, you can use the bathroom, buy your roller dogs, and if the chargers are still in use, you could even go to Walmart to actually get the charge. Still a win for you. Not as good as if that gas station had installed 6 chargers, but hey, it is still an improvement.

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[theonetruestripes]

Because Walmart is funding the entire thing. Random Chevron station owner is more or less on their own which makes it cost prohibitive for all but a few.

Er....partly. DC FAST chargers are in the same sort of price range as gas pumps (those things cost more then most people think!).

If a random chevron owner can contemplate adding 4 pumps to open “the other side” of the lot as more pumps they can contemplate paying for the DC Fast chargers and doing the same thing for EV owners.

On the other hand hand the paperwork involved in installing a gas pump is something gas station owners already know how to handle, they have done it before after all. They also know the ongoing costs. Adding EV chargers is not a known process to the vast majority of them. They don’t know how many people will use them, what maintenance runs, and what the power supply runs. They don’t know what paperwork that kind of work involves, and definitely have not done it before. So while the cost in dollars may be similar the cost in their time is vastly different.

So the random Chevron station owners don’t (for the most part) lack funds to more then a few chargers to their existing gas stations, they do lack the knowledge of what it will do for their income (will charging fees plus extra C-store traffic pay off the chargers in 2 years or less? Will EV drivers ignore the C-store and stay in their cars and fiddle with their large entertainment screens watching netflix and whatnot? Will the chargers be outdated and “slow” before they pay for themselves?). They also aren’t real excited in learning what they need to ask a utility company for, and how much it “should” cost so they know if they are getting a deal or ripped off.

Will getting 2 to 6 fast chargers installed and listed on plug share bring in the business, or do they need to advertise somewhere?

Things aren’t awesome with gas pumps, but gas staton owners know all the ins and outs, they are novices with DC fast chargers. Maybe if one of their friends has already done a successful build out and can let them know what is and isn’t good...

...and yeah that is why WaWa and other large chains of “high quality” gas stations can do these better, they run a pilot and then apply what they learn across tens of stores.

 

[jlstan]

I-40 from about Bristol to Ft. Smith is all EA in Walmart parking lots (pre-supercharger), and I have grown to hate them. But I begrudgingly approve this. Ha. More options = good. Another app = ugh.

 

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

This sounds great. Since Walmart already owns (most of?) the lots, has infrastructure going to the stores, etc., permitting & install should be much faster than NEVI, etc. As much as I dislike Walmart, this sounds like a great plan. Assuming they are price-competitive I would definitely use them on road trips over their competitors.

 

[emoore]

I didn’t watch the video but is the plan to install chargers at ALL Walmart locations? Or are they going to focus on the most crowded ones?

 

[Singletracker]

I didn’t watch the video but is the plan to install chargers at ALL Walmart locations? Or are they going to focus on the most crowded ones?

I watched the video and the Walmart rep was pretty non-committal on that issue. They seem to be quite serious about it, but are playing it by ear. That makes sense, to me. Always a good business practice to under promise and over deliver.

 

[emoore]

I watched the video and the Walmart rep was pretty non-committal on that issue. They seem to be quite serious about it, but are playing it by ear. That makes sense, to me. Always a good business practice to under promise and over deliver.

That kind of sucks. Would solve a lot of rural charger issues.

 

[iansriv]

Perhaps I missed it but, it would be great if Walmart could leverage solar to partially offset some of this.

 

[Ralph]

I watched the video and the Walmart rep was pretty non-committal on that issue. They seem to be quite serious about it, but are playing it by ear. That makes sense, to me. Always a good business practice to under promise and over deliver.

Actually, he specifically said that, although there would be other factors, demand would be the prime driver of site selection and roll out. As you say, this makes sense if you (they) want the business to pay for itself. I would argue that they could convert a number of people that don't like WM to at least reluctant users by targeting charging deserts. Given his interview, they are unlikely to do this since most of the charging deserts have low rates of EV adoption at present.

People should not expect this implementation to fill the gap left by NEVI (chargers no more than 50 miles apart on all freeways)

 

[gordonrands]

This is really good news for EV charging, just the kind of competition we need.

When I picked up my R1S in Jan 2023 the trip home we dubbed the Great US Walmart tour.

We used EA for over 90% of the charging on that 5500 mile drive. Most of them were in Walmart parking lots very conveniently located for traveling.

My experience too. Even though we normally avoid Walmart we picked up snacks, boxes of sodas, meals, phone charging cords, etc. while charging at EAs in Walmart parking lots. I could envision they'd also sell some fishing, camping and other recreation equipment that Rivian owners find they need. And the bathrooms are in the fronts of the stores, which is great for us Boomers. I'll bet that as regular Walmart shoppers see lots of EVs there (esp. if it is really front and center) their views of EVs may start to soften. A win for EVs all the way around.

 

[mkhuffman]

Actually, he specifically said that, although there would be other factors, demand would be the prime driver of site selection and roll out. As you say, this makes sense if you (they) want the business to pay for itself. I would argue that they could convert a number of people that don't like WM to at least reluctant users by targeting charging deserts. Given his interview, they are unlikely to do this since most of the charging deserts have low rates of EV adoption at present.

People should not expect this implementation to fill the gap left by NEVI (chargers no more than 50 miles apart on all freeways)

I mostly agree with your assessment but a large gap between DCFC stations increases the business case for putting one in, IMO. They become the only option for people traveling, who can stop and buy some things while charging.

This is the way it should be. If it makes economic sense, it will be done. If not, it won't. It is much better than wasteful subsidies.

 

[Wefty]

Does this mean fast charging might finally come to Bentonville?

 

[Harvest]

When I initially read the article I was hopeful, like others above, that this meant they would put the in all their rural Walmarts, but now that sounds uncertain. Driving around the Midwest unless you are on the interstate or in larger cities it's a bit hard to find fast chargers. However, there are a lot of Walmarts in towns as small as 5000 people on rural highways.

I do wonder what this means for Walmart locations that already have EA chargers. In the Midwest I've charged at EA chargers at at least a half-dozen Walmarts. I've appreciated having them but in general they've had somewhat poor reliability, maybe 50-60% of the chargers working on average, so hopefully Walmart will replace EA with their own chargers and do better maintaining them.

 

[922110]

Great news, I just hope they support plug and charge.

 

[emoore]

Plug and charge would be icing on the cake. I just hope they are reliable and in rural Walmarts. I'll take the extra few seconds to use a CC or App in order to cover more charging deserts.

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