Very disappointing snow experience

[windblowlc]

Give the guy a break! And you are wrong. My snow mode update was pushed on December 21st

I believe I said since beginning of December. Don't know how long it takes for the update to complete in stages, but we're in the middle of January now. I've reread the original post again, and my follow up reply, still don't believe I need to give anyone a break since I said my message was to tell others not to make the same mistake.

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[R.I.P.]

I have just received my purchase email and had similar concerns. I was waiting for the Max Pack but for the added range but that doesn't look promising. My plan is to go with the 21" road tires for the range and just purchase dedicated snow tires locally for winter change over rather than order another set from Rivian. I live in Central Oregon where the freeze/thaw cycle can make the roads extremely slick with hard packed glazy snow.
What have others done?

Greetings fellow Oragonian.
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For your use case, I would certainly suggest the dual motor variant, it is what I intend to order when my turn comes around
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I believe I said since beginning of December. Don't know how long it takes for the update to complete in stages, but we're in the middle of January now. I've reread the original post again, and my follow up reply, still don't believe I need to give anyone a break since I said my message was to tell others not to make the same mistake.

Well... I feel wierd saying this, because I am so often guilty of the same... I would agree that your tone is a bit harsh.
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[windblowlc]

Well... I feel wierd saying this, because I am so often guilty of the same... I would agree that your tone is a bit harsh.
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It wasn't meant to be harsh. People have a tendency to do less, until something happened. Better to be safe than sorry later.

The title of the thread said "very-disappointing-snow-experience", with OP driving 22" all season in the mountain country. Leads me to believe he had unrealistic assumptions.

 

[R.I.P.]

It wasn't meant to be harsh. People have a tendency to do less, until something happened. Better to be safe than sorry later.

The title of the thread said "very-disappointing-snow-experience", with OP driving 22" all season in the mountain country. Leads me to believe he had unrealistic assumptions.

I am a very experienced off-roader, and I was super surprised at how evil the R1T gets in super slick conditions. My wife's Model Y with _summer tires_ on it is far easier to handle on ice than the Rivian with us on ATs.

It was surprising, and educational. If you have not experienced what a Bambi-on-ice this vehicle can be, congrats. Use this discussion as a heads up, because if you are used to a more traditional power trane, this truck can jump up & bite you when conditions converge; even with winter tires on it.

 

[windblowlc]

I am a very experienced off-roader, and I was super surprised at how evil the R1T gets in super slick conditions. My wife's Model Y with _summer tires_ on it is far easier to handle on ice than the Rivian with us on ATs.

It was surprising, and educational. If you have not experienced what a Bambi-on-ice this vehicle can be, congrats. Use this discussion as a heads up, because if you are used to a more traditional power trane, this truck can jump up & bite you when conditions converge; even with winter tires on it.

You're mistaken on what I said. I'm not surprised at all whatsoever at how the Rivian performs under ice on hilly terrain (the reason for snow mode,) but very surprised to hear that your MY with summer tires can out handle the Rivian with AT on ice. Doesn't matter how good your car can perform on ice or how good you are as a driver, tires are the limiting factor. Summer tire rubber are not pliable under 40 degree F, have no traction, and the compound can crack. Very surprised to hear such an experience driver like yourself drive a car in winter with summer tires. My Porsche Cayenne with summer tires would do a "Bambi-on-ice" like you said.

 

[R.I.P.]

You're mistaken on what I said. I'm not surprised at all whatsoever at how the Rivian performs under ice on hilly terrain (the reason for snow mode,) but very surprised to hear that your MY with summer tires can out handle the Rivian with AT on ice. Doesn't matter how good your car can perform on ice or how good you are as a driver, tires are the limiting factor. Summer tire rubber are not pliable under 40 degree F, have no traction, and the compound can crack. Very surprised to hear such an experience driver like yourself drive a car in winter with summer tires. My Porsche Cayenne with summer tires would do a "Bambi-on-ice" like you said.

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[Tbirdjeff]

Give the guy a break! And you are wrong. My snow mode update was pushed on December 21st

Thx! My update wasn't pushed until the morning of Jan 9th. I have no idea why - but that is why I didn't have Snow Mode option.

 

[Tbirdjeff]

I would at least have taken snow socks with me, and I live in socal and almost never see snow. I've taken socks or chains every time I hit the mountains and luckily never have had to use them, but you still take them for times like this.

Just seems wildly unprepared. Makes me cringe a little.

I do have chains and had them with me. The weather went from raining to slick snow/icy mush in 15 mins. I hadn't thought I needed to stop to put on the chains. Also, socks on a heavy truck don't work that well on ice, which is the type of issue I was seeing. Sorry you think it was cringe, but I have driven in plenty of snow on these very tires and same state.

 

[Tbirdjeff]

And the Darwin Winter Driving Award goes to.........

says the guy from Los Altos.

 

[Tbirdjeff]

As an old man, and one who has many decades of off-roading experience, I am often the one that has to swap seats to get one of the Rivians through tough spots. I can tell you that when it comes to super slippery surfaces, no amount of feathering the throttle helps. The vehicle attempts to provide torque to all Wheels, because it has no way of knowing in advance what the friction coefficient actually is. The result, I can tell you from many many hours of getting them through tough spots, is pure evil.

Again, snow mode has gone a long way toward helping this. And, yet, again, because the vehicle has no way of knowing just how slippery the surface is until it actually senses a slip, there's no way to completely cure it.

It actually puzzles me that some have a hard time grasping this concept, but there are certain situations where the sheer design of the differential gives you an advantage. My pre-order for a Rivian is for the dual motor model for exactly this reason. I am extremely happy with the way my model Y handles very slippery roads, and I want my rivian to do the same, with two motors and a differential, not super complicated algorithms trying to figure out how to manage all four motors.

Four motors blows the doors off the competition in a number of scenarios. But not all scenarios. Mark this thread to review it in a couple of years when there are a number of dual motor Rivians on the road, and I bet that in snowy/icy conditions, the dual motor Rivian owners feel more planted and secure. It is just the physics of how the technology works.

My OP post really should have been about this very thing. Lots of people jumping on the bandwagon that I have the wrong tires (noted) or I don't know how to drive or was ill-prepared (not noted; I have chains if I need them). What was disappointing was what you are describing (very well, I might add). The side hill slip, going to a crawl that also seemed odd, was what was shocking. I have driven many Jeeps in challenging snow or ice without snow tires and never experienced the truck doing what it was doing with the R1T, including crazy slippery snow in Seattle (if you know, you know). There was no way to override it as I can in my Jeep - no gears to shift, no mode that seemed to resolve it, etc. It was like the truck was quitting on me, refusing to go. Did the tires have something to do with that? I am sure they did, but it was unique to Rivian in this situation where the truck behaved differently than any AWD or 4x4 I have driven, and not in a good way. It has been stellar in every other challenging situation I have driven it, including a lot of other snow already.

 

[OffRoad987]

I drive in snow and ice everyday.
I have the right tires.
Nokian LT3 Studded 20’

Will be ordering Nokian Outpost AT for the summer.

 

[DB-EV]

My OP post really should have been about this very thing. Lots of people jumping on the bandwagon that I have the wrong tires (noted) or I don't know how to drive or was ill-prepared (not noted; I have chains if I need them). What was disappointing was what you are describing (very well, I might add). The side hill slip, going to a crawl that also seemed odd, was what was shocking. I have driven many Jeeps in challenging snow or ice without snow tires and never experienced the truck doing what it was doing with the R1T, including crazy slippery snow in Seattle (if you know, you know). There was no way to override it as I can in my Jeep - no gears to shift, no mode that seemed to resolve it, etc. It was like the truck was quitting on me, refusing to go. Did the tires have something to do with that? I am sure they did, but it was unique to Rivian in this situation where the truck behaved differently than any AWD or 4x4 I have driven, and not in a good way. It has been stellar in every other challenging situation I have driven it, including a lot of other snow already.

Sounds like they should take snow mode and tweak it to mimic dual motor.

 

[windblowlc]

My OP post really should have been about this very thing. Lots of people jumping on the bandwagon that I have the wrong tires (noted) or I don't know how to drive or was ill-prepared (not noted; I have chains if I need them). What was disappointing was what you are describing (very well, I might add). The side hill slip, going to a crawl that also seemed odd, was what was shocking. I have driven many Jeeps in challenging snow or ice without snow tires and never experienced the truck doing what it was doing with the R1T, including crazy slippery snow in Seattle (if you know, you know). There was no way to override it as I can in my Jeep - no gears to shift, no mode that seemed to resolve it, etc. It was like the truck was quitting on me, refusing to go. Did the tires have something to do with that? I am sure they did, but it was unique to Rivian in this situation where the truck behaved differently than any AWD or 4x4 I have driven, and not in a good way. It has been stellar in every other challenging situation I have driven it, including a lot of other snow already.

Your Rivian is a first year EV with no snow mode and no winter tires. It has no gear to shift, with no way to disable or select low regen so no feathering of the throttle. It's a 7200 lbs vehicle weight with all season tires. I don't understand why it was such a disappointment with its snow performance on hill slips. Your past experience with your Jeeps is irrelevant in this case. It's unrealistic whatsoever to expect the Rivian to perform like your Jeeps. I don't know why Rivian didn't push the update to you until Jan 9, but you had chains, so you were prepared for the road ahead but didn't use it.

 

[Tbirdjeff]

Your Rivian is a first year EV with no snow mode and no winter tires. It has no gear to shift, with no way to disable or select low regen so no feathering of the throttle. It's a 7200 lbs vehicle weight with all season tires. I don't understand why it was such a disappointment with its snow performance on hill slips. Your past experience with your Jeeps is irrelevant in this case. It's unrealistic whatsoever to expect the Rivian to perform like your Jeeps. I don't know why Rivian didn't push the update to you until Jan 9, but you had chains, so you were prepared for the road ahead but didn't use it.

Give it a rest. You basically repeated everything I just said. And You essentially said I can’t expect it to perform like a very capable 4x4. You clearly are missing the point. Drop the thread. You have said your peace (over and over).

 

[windblowlc]

Give it a rest. You basically repeated everything I just said. And You essentially said I can’t expect it to perform like a very capable 4x4. You clearly are missing the point. Drop the thread. You have said your peace (over and over).

We're saying the same thing but meaning different things. This conversation is surely over between us.

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