Very disappointing snow experience

[OffRoad987]

So when is the meetup?

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[State11]

Only thing I m disappointed at is heater. The heating system sucks. And I live in California. It sucks even for California.

I think you might have a bad one, mine is fine....if anything, it is stronger than any vehicle I've owned.

 

[WattsUp]

Hi all,
I think that Snow tires (studs) are a must have. My wife and I got caught in an ice storm and the rivian went off road twice. The second time was on a flat section of road. I have the all terrain tires and was in snow mode going about 15mph. I let off the accelerator lightly and the truck slide sideways into a ditch. I think that if there were better tires this might not have happened, but I agree that the programming on the 4 motor was the main cause- regen tried to kick in and that was the end.

 

[R.I.P.]

Hi all,
I think that Snow tires (studs) are a must have. My wife and I got caught in an ice storm and the rivian went off road twice. The second time was on a flat section of road. I have the all terrain tires and was in snow mode going about 15mph. I let off the accelerator lightly and the truck slide sideways into a ditch. I think that if there were better tires this might not have happened, but I agree that the programming on the 4 motor was the main cause- regen tried to kick in and that was the end.

Yep.

-Quad motors with good traction is GREAT!
-Quad motors with fair traction is GOOD!
-Quad motors with low traction is dicey; there is no mechanical connection between the wheels for stability.
-Quad motors with ultra-low traction is EVIL! The vehicle becomes uncontrollable, while vehicles with similar tires and a differential are able to stay on the road.

Our Quad motor R1T will get sold when our Dual motor R1S gets here, because we deal with a lot of ice and snow.

 

[sierraskier]

Yep.

-Quad motors with good traction is GREAT!
-Quad motors with fair traction is GOOD!
-Quad motors with low traction is dicey; there is no mechanical connection between the wheels for stability.
-Quad motors with ultra-low traction is EVIL! The vehicle becomes uncontrollable, while vehicles with similar tires and a differential are able to stay on the road.

Our Quad motor R1T will get sold when our Dual motor R1S gets here, because we deal with a lot of ice and snow.

Or you could just get better tires (traction).

 

[Kuro-Rivian]

I am a very experienced off-roader,

Doesn't mean your good at it....

 

[R.I.P.]

Ge

Or you could just get better tires (traction).

Better tires help, yes. For exactly the reason you indicate, it increases traction. However, as discussed adnausiem, the lack of mechanical advantage in the Quad-motor design remains a handicap for the vehicle, so studs are almost a must for ice, whereas just good winter tires on the Model Y keep in quite manerly in the same situation.

 

[windblowlc]

Ge

Better tires help, yes. For exactly the reason you indicate, it increases traction. However, as discussed adnausiem, the lack of mechanical advantage in the Quad-motor design remains a handicap for the vehicle, so studs are almost a must for ice, whereas just good winter tires on the Model Y keep in quite manerly in the same situation.

Unless you have studs, you're not going to have traction on ice. So what do you mean by your MY behaving quite mannerly on ice without studs?

 

[R.I.P.]

Unless you have studs, you're not going to have traction on ice. So what do you mean by your MY behaving quite mannerly on ice without studs?

 

[windblowlc]

 

[Tbirdjeff]

Hi all,
I think that Snow tires (studs) are a must have. My wife and I got caught in an ice storm and the rivian went off road twice. The second time was on a flat section of road. I have the all terrain tires and was in snow mode going about 15mph. I let off the accelerator lightly and the truck slide sideways into a ditch. I think that if there were better tires this might not have happened, but I agree that the programming on the 4 motor was the main cause- regen tried to kick in and that was the end.

**THIS** is the point of the OP. Sorry to hear about the accident. Really hate to hear about that.

 

[Tonicart]

Only thing I m disappointed at is heater. The heating system sucks. And I live in California. It sucks even for California.

I'm happy with my heater -- I usually have it set to 75*F and fan speed 1. Also seat heat 1 and occasionally the steering wheel heat on. Takes a while to warm up, but the pre-heat via the app helps!

 

[Synapticon]

Yep.

-Quad motors with good traction is GREAT!
-Quad motors with fair traction is GOOD!
-Quad motors with low traction is dicey; there is no mechanical connection between the wheels for stability.
-Quad motors with ultra-low traction is EVIL! The vehicle becomes uncontrollable, while vehicles with similar tires and a differential are able to stay on the road.

Our Quad motor R1T will get sold when our Dual motor R1S gets here, because we deal with a lot of ice and snow.

Thanks, RIP for your detailed explanations. "Bambi on ice"!! Can confirm. I am frequently going up to MT Bachelor each week. Conditions change hourly, you name it. You can leave town on dry pavement and in 30 minutes run the gamut and be on snow and ice—mostly straight road and not particularly steep. I thought I would try to get by just siping the Pirelli 20 ATs (R1T LE VIN<3000) at the start of the season. Until one day two weeks ago, returning to Bend, about noon, sunny, straight, snow packed, shaded descending lane, in SNOW MODE, nearly flat, (uphill lane melting, sanded, line of cars in my lane moving about 25 mph, well spaced, almost no uphill traffic. Suddenly rear end starts to slip. In seconds, I'm sideways, no control, foot off accelerator, no steering. Luckily as I slid 180, I drifted into the uphill lane (luckily no uphill traffic) and got traction. Obviously the "snow pack" had an imperceptible ice layer. Didn't turn my white socks brown, but got my attention. Continuing back uphill, found a place to turn around and made my way, very, very slowly down the road and drove directly to Les Schwab and got studded snows. Reported the incident to Rivian; I don't think they understood the limitations of snow mode and traction. Easy to be fooled by conditions, viewed from behind the wheel. Be wary of the hype of technology. Studs are a quantum leap in my situation.

I'm not a newbie to winter driving. Grew up in the midwest, as old as RIP, and know enough when to stay home in inclement weather. Be safe.

 

[sgec]

No. I am not talking about traction control. I'm talking about the mechanical ability of an open differential to move torque away from the wheel with traction.

You are in slippery snow or ice. You are on a side hill. Slipping sideways means going into the tree line.

I run a number of different rigs, but all of them have the switchable ability on the dash to unlock the differentials completely and run "open". Under the described conditions, where I absolutely do not want to go sideways, I will reach down flip my switches to full open and try to ease the vehicle across the side hill. Because of the Dynamics of a differential, in virtually every instance the wheels with the most weight on them (downhill) will not spin, it is the wheels with the least traction that will spin. The aggressive off-road tires may or may not generate enough traction to move the vehicle forward, but at least the downhill Wheels won't spin, meaning that I will not slide sideways. If all four wheels break loose at any time, down the hill I go into the trees.

This is one of the scenarios that the quad motor setup is ill equipped to handle. It was really bad before the snow mode update, but it still tries to put some torque to all the wheels, which can induce slip in all the wheels, which sends the vehicle out of control and down the hill. Yes, of course the weight makes that worse. But it's the simple physics of attempting to put torque to all Wheels that compounds the problem.

Fixable with software? I'm sure it is. But it certainly doesn't mean that the problem does not exist.

The same would apply to engine braking/regen with an open diff? Like the wheel with the least traction would skid first?

 

[sgec]

Thanks, RIP for your detailed explanations. "Bambi on ice"!! Can confirm. I am frequently going up to MT Bachelor each week. Conditions change hourly, you name it. You can leave town on dry pavement and in 30 minutes run the gamut and be on snow and ice—mostly straight road and not particularly steep. I thought I would try to get by just siping the Pirelli 20 ATs (R1T LE VIN<3000) at the start of the season. Until one day two weeks ago, returning to Bend, about noon, sunny, straight, snow packed, shaded descending lane, in SNOW MODE, nearly flat, (uphill lane melting, sanded, line of cars in my lane moving about 25 mph, well spaced, almost no uphill traffic. Suddenly rear end starts to slip. In seconds, I'm sideways, no control, foot off accelerator, no steering. Luckily as I slid 180, I drifted into the uphill lane (luckily no uphill traffic) and got traction. Obviously the "snow pack" had an imperceptible ice layer. Didn't turn my white socks brown, but got my attention. Continuing back uphill, found a place to turn around and made my way, very, very slowly down the road and drove directly to Les Schwab and got studded snows. Reported the incident to Rivian; I don't think they understood the limitations of snow mode and traction. Easy to be fooled by conditions, viewed from behind the wheel. Be wary of the hype of technology. Studs are a quantum leap in my situation.

I'm not a newbie to winter driving. Grew up in the midwest, as old as RIP, and know enough when to stay home in inclement weather. Be safe.

Glad you're okay Rob! To add to the excitement on the drive back from Mt. Bachelor to Bend it's difficult to know if you're going to have regen or not. A message pops up and disappears every once in a while "Acceleration and regen braking reduced until battery warms up" leaving a tiny little indicator on the dash but without looking it's a surprise, am I going to have regen or not when I let off the accelerator? I really wish there was an option to turn regen completely off.

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