Lights flickering when charging R1T

[BigginsCH]

I have noticed that some of my light bulbs in the house flicker while the truck is charging. What is strange is it is only some of the LED lightbulbs.

Specifically noticed on bathroom fixtures and in the kitchen pendents.

I suspect these have the same lightbulbs which may be different from other fixtures in the house.

I will probably try to swap for a different brand lightbulb, or check if they are dimmable vs non-dimmable to see if it makes a difference.

Since it is only some light bulbs/fixtures, I am assuming I don't have a general issue with the charger installation or circuit breaker panel. But if anybody has additional ideas, I welcome any suggestions to investigate. Thanks!

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[VSG]

I think it's likely that you have dimmable bulbs, because those can flicker under various circumstances since they are switching the electricity on and off very fast in order to reduce output. I have found that the first sign of a dimmable light bulb going bad is that it starts to occasionally flicker, so if you have old bulbs then you might just be seeing an indication that they need to be replaced soon, and that the charger is just exacerbating the problem.

So the first thing I would do is to replace one of the flickering ones with a brand new bulb, then observe to see if it's still flickering. But if your charger is affecting light bulbs on a different circuit, and it's not the light bulb, then I would say you really should have an electrician look at that. That should not be happening. Finding different lightbulbs won't fix the problem, it will only hide it.

 

[rivian_germany]

The lights are blinking, I'm thinking, It's all over when I go out drinking.

Sounds like you might need an electrician, or at least a multimeter and some diagnostic knowledge. So if you go in the app and "stop charging" then the bulbs stop flickering? How big is the mains circuit? Can you try charging on a different circuit (110v) temporarily to see if they still flicker? Lots of variables here.

 

[madgrey]

Do the circuits have dimmers? My LED dimmers have a trim circuit that is sensitive to input voltage. It may need to be adjusted. Different dimmable bulbs behave differently as well. In any case, you are pulling enough current to lower the voltage at the bulb. It could be within spec but enough of a difference for some bulbs to notice.

 

[larrydallas]

We actually have a similar problem, but not with the wall charger. My layman’s understanding is that some homes have circuits/switches that are meant for only incandescent or halogen bulbs, and NOT LED. While an LED bulb will generally still work in the same sockets, you’ll start getting some “strange” occurrences such as flickering when another switch is tripped. For example, we actually get a “strobe” effect in the kitchen sometimes when we open our refrigerator.

 

[BigginsCH]

So if you go in the app and "stop charging" then the bulbs stop flickering? How big is the mains circuit? Can you try charging on a different circuit (110v) temporarily to see if they still flicker? Lots of variables here.

Correct, when I start and stop charging from the app the flickering resumes or stops.

My mains circuit is 200A residential service. I have the charger on a 100A breaker serving a 60A breaker in a garage subpanel over about 60ft of 2/0 SER cable. It should be more than adequately sized to charge one vehicle, as we sized it to potential have an additional vehicle charger or other Garage appliance in the future.

I will check if the bulbs are considered dimmable and try swapping for non dimmable bulbs. I will also check if the effected fixtures for some reason are not compatible with LEDs but the house is only 3 yrs old so I expect the fixtures won't be the culprit.

Note, I am charging at 48A on a 60A breaker so shouldn't be restricted. I am also going to try charging at 40A since I can still fill up overnight, and see if that helps as well.

 

[SANZC02]

Correct, when I start and stop charging from the app the flickering resumes or stops.

My mains circuit is 200A residential service. I have the charger on a 100A breaker serving a 60A breaker in a garage subpanel over about 60ft of 2/0 SER cable. It should be more than adequately sized to charge one vehicle, as we sized it to potential have an additional vehicle charger or other Garage appliance in the future.

I will check if the bulbs are considered dimmable and try swapping for non dimmable bulbs. I will also check if the effected fixtures for some reason are not compatible with LEDs but the house is only 3 yrs old so I expect the fixtures won't be the culprit.

Note, I am charging at 48A on a 60A breaker so shouldn't be restricted. I am also going to try charging at 40A since I can still fill up overnight, and see if that helps as well.

I would get a multi-meter and go around the house checking for voltage drops turning the charger on and off. You have a 200 amp panel but the feed may not be able to fully support it.

 

[VSG]

Your specs sound good, but it could always be a grounding problem.

 

[MadMac]

I can contribute here too as I have the same problem with my R1S: flickering house LED lights when charging (I simply schedule it for overnight as a temp fix). But, let me add a few points to consider:

-My Tesla M3 Performance charges off the same (14-50) plug with the Tesla mobile charger with NO flickering and has for a couple years.
-My Rivian flickers the house LEDs with the Rivian mobile charger on the same plug.
-My Rivian flickers the house LEDs also with the TESLA mobile charger and an adapter while still using the same plug.

Eventually, I guess I’ll have my electrician take a look (perhaps he can install a noise filter of some kind) but it sure seems like it’s originating with my R1S (doesn’t change my love for the vehicle overall though!).

 

[CrazyOne]

If you are not Electrically savvy, call an electrician. Flickering is usually caused by arcing. Please fix before there is a fire.

In theory, it could be a problem with truck varying the load on your power supply. But I would look at circuits and charger before going there

 

[AMaier]

I have the same issue with my R1T. We have 2 EVSEs (Wallbox and Rivian) and two EVs (Ioniq 5 and R1T) on 400amp service. Our Ioniq 5 doesn't cause any flickering but the R1T does. Even at 8 amps it flickers our lights.

We had an electrician and the power company come out and check over the house wiring and mains, and look at voltage and amperage drop. Everything looked fine. We also took the truck in for service and they couldn't find anything wrong with it.

Today we charged at someone else's house on a different power grid (this time using the mobile charger) and their lights flicker just the same. Only the LEDs are affected. It is almost definitely some electromagnetic interference being produced by the car.

I am considering putting a large ferrite on the charge cord to filter out the interference. The concern is if a component in the car is going bad. What happens if it fails completely?

 

[AMaier]

Update on my end. We have been doing some interesting tests to get to the bottom of this issue. Our house flickers so much while charging we just leave the lights off, but I am concerned about how the dirty power will effect computers and appliances.

I've come up with a portable test to narrow down the cause. So far all three R1Ts I've had access to seem to be causing the flickering, but I'm still collecting data to get a better idea of it.

The test:
• Make sure no EV is charging
• Plug a desk lamp with an LED bulb into a lamp dimmer and plug the dimmer into any outlet.
(I'm using this one: Lutron Credenza Single Pole White LED Slide Light-Dimmer, but also made an extension cord with a changeable hardwired wall dimmer switch and outlet on the end.)
• Turn the dimmer down to 1/3 power so it is easier to look at the light and see the power change.
• Note that the lamp does not flicker at all at this point. If it does flicker, turn off large power draws like AC units, fans, etc until the flicking stops and note what caused the flickering.
• On the same power feed (anywhere fed by the same meter should be fine) plug in an EV and start charging. The charger and rate of charge doesn't seem to matter much here and a mobile charger with 15 amp plug is fine.
• Wait until charging is stable (some EVs ramp up their charge rate over the first minute or so)
• Note if the light flickers, what EV is charging, the kw being pulled, the address the test is being done at (to know what electrical service is being used), the subpanel(s) supplying the power, and the date/time (to pull vehicle logs later).
• If any large appliances are running note them as well (it is best to only be charging the one EV)
• Unplug or stop charging the EV.
• Note if the light is flickering.
• If the home has multiple subpanels that can be charged from, repeat for each possible panel (to rule out wiring issues at the panel or outlet).
• Additionally, If the EV has onboard power outlets that can handle the load, plug the lamp into the vehicle directly (while the vehicle is not connected to the charger) and note if the power supplied from the vehicle is clean or if it causes flickering.
• Note the dimmer and bulb used, and repeat the steps above with different light bulbs and dimmers if possible. Filament bulbs tend to store heat and the small fluctuations are smoothed out, while LEDs are much more responsive to power changes and better represent the power conditions.
• Repeat the steps above at additional power service locations such as separate homes on different meters and fed by different transformers.

Quick non-offical results (still testing):
We have had access to three R1Ts and all three cause the LED flickering problem at my house. No matter what panel the truck charged from (tested three subpanels), what dimmer I used (tested two types of wall dimmer switches and one portable outlet dimmer), and what LED bulb I used (tested assorted GE LED bulbs {standard and spot lights}, Edison style LEDs, and two models of off-brand candelabra LEDs), they all flickered. The flicker was the same charging from the Rivian wall charger, Wallbox charger, and portable charger (portable charger was used to test on all three panels). One test has been done at another location and the result was the same. Also, the power supplied directly from the Rivian causes the light to flicker even while not charging.
I also charged an Ioniq 5 with no issue.

So far, it seems like charging the Rivian introduces subtle power fluctuations down the line, which causes issue for LED dimmer circuits anywhere on the system. I even tested powering the lamp through an office UPS (both backup and surge only sides) and it still flickered, so this could potentially mess with very expensive electronics if someone charges at work.

Again, this is not a final result and more testing needs to be done. I want to compile more data and present proper results when there is time.

 

[R1Tom]

Mine does it too. I have just accepted it as noise from the on board charger in the Rivian.

 

[R1TUser]

@AMaier Can you describe the flicker in more detail? Is it a fast flicker where the lights dim and brighten many times per second? Or a slow flicker where it takes several seconds between different levels of brightness? If the latter, approximately how many seconds does it take to change?

 

[Zoidz]

I have noticed that some of my light bulbs in the house flicker while the truck is charging. What is strange is it is only some of the LED lightbulbs.

Specifically noticed on bathroom fixtures and in the kitchen pendents.

I suspect these have the same lightbulbs which may be different from other fixtures in the house.

I will probably try to swap for a different brand lightbulb, or check if they are dimmable vs non-dimmable to see if it makes a difference.

Since it is only some light bulbs/fixtures, I am assuming I don't have a general issue with the charger installation or circuit breaker panel. But if anybody has additional ideas, I welcome any suggestions to investigate. Thanks!

Based on your initial description "some of my light bulbs in the house flicker while the truck is charging. What is strange is it is only some of the LED lightbulbs." it's probably not a bad connection, wiring problem, etc. I repeat - based on your initial description.

My gut feeling is that this is Harmonic Distortion caused by the EVSE and the inverter in the vehicle. Not that the EVSE does not 'change' the electricity - the EVSE is essentially a smart switch, nothing more. It's highly unlikely that replacing the EVSE would have any impact.

The inverter in the vehicle converts the AC voltage to DC battery charging voltage using specialized power transistors. This process causes noise on the power line known as harmonic distortion. This can affect other electronic devices. LED bulbs ALSO have an electronic circuit that reduces the voltage from 120 AC to a lower voltage. To varying degrees, these circuits rely on a clean power line to work properly. Cheap or older design bulbs are notorious for not working with dimmers because they cannot adjust/compensate/tolerate a modified voltage waveform. Modern dimmers modify the waveform, they do NOT reduce the voltage. This is why some bulbs do it, some don't. Figure 1 is a clean/optimal AC waveform. Figure 2 is what the AC waveform looks like with harmonic distortion. In very simple terms, the LED bulb circuit is designed to turn on and off at certain voltage values dependent on the waveform. That's easy in Figure 1. In Figure 2, the LED buld circuit may turn on and off multiple times due to the spikes in the waveform, causing what we see as flickering.

A good test would be to charge a DIFFERENT non-Rivian vehicle and see if the problem changes.

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