Level 2 charging causes my house LEDs to flicker

[MountainBikeDude]

Afternoon all,

I've been having a problem for a while now and can't figure out the issue. When charging my R1T (only EV I have to test) my downstairs lights flicker.

Setup
I currently have 3 panels in my house, a main panel, with 200amp service. In that panel, I have a 60amp breaker for the Rivian charger 6' away. There is a 100amp sub panel beside it with all the downstairs breakers. Stove, WD, baseboards, etc including recessed LED pot lights throughout.
Another feed from the main runs upstairs to a second 100amp sub panel with all the same typical equipment /breakers including WD and HW.

The only lights that flicker are the ones running off the downstairs panel, and most noticeably, when they are dimmed to any degree. All upstairs lighting off the second sub panel don't seem to display the same issues.

My brother in law is an electrician and even he's having difficulty understanding the issue. He thinks it could be the feed from the pole causing it, but that should translate upstairs as well, which it's not.

We ran two experiments, one connecting the portable charger to the oven outlet, and the issue persisted. The second was lowering the output of the Rivian wall charger both from the truck, and then using the flip switches inside the EVSE. Same results from 3kW draw and up obviously the flickering was greater or more noticeable at 11.5kW or 48amp. And yes, we rebooted the wall charger so the jumper settings would take effect and limit it's output.

We checked the voltage, and it was holding steady, but unfortunately couldn't test the amperage.

He thought it might be the neutral wire not being connected, but then quickly realized they aren't needed.

If anyone has experienced the same or has any ideas, I'm all ears!

Sponsored

 

[Electrified Outdoors]

Can you post pictures of all three of your panels? Specifically interested in the breakers and all the different loads you have.

What does the voltage look like on the conductor feeding your sub panel when this is happening?

If you rule out any electrical issues or overloading I would try swapping out the dimmer switch with a standard switch to see if the problem continues. LEDs are very sensitive to power quality and some LED dimmers are complete garbage unfortunately.

 

[VSG]

There's another thread with a similar problem - you might get some ideas from the responses over there. Search for "flickering" and it will be the first or second result.

 

[Austin]

Are all the circuit breaker connections tight (specifically for the EV breaker, subpanel breaker, & LED light breaker)? Obviously flip the main breaker before checking...

 

[COdogman]

 

[Singletracker]

The LED’s on my bed headboard flicker when charging, as well. Kinda annoying if I’m lying in bed trying to read. I always schedule charging to start after lights out time. So, I haven’t really given it much thought, as I’m usually charging in the middle of the night, when lights are off anyway. My setup is on a 60 amp breaker and I have had no issues since installation, almost a year ago. Just thought it was what LED‘s do. Damn, hope the house doesn’t burn down ?

 

[josh0]

I second the suggestion that it’s the dimmers. We have the old-school style push button switches (modern ones for dimmable LEDs, not actually old ones, though our house did still have a few of those when we moved in), and we also experience annoying flickering at times, even without EV charging. If your flickering lights are on dimmers, adjusting the brightness might help, we’ve found that can actually make a huge difference to the flickering.

 

[solaskaze]

From your writeup I would guess the issue is the feed to, or the sub panel of, the basement - this includes slightly carbonized feeds (e.g. neutral), which most definitely can affect any device that uses it.**
Here's an opposite test: disconnect the entire basement sub panel: does line noise go down?
Also, did the Rivian WC operating normally/charge rate is normal, AND mobile charger worked normally from oven?

** I know this because the entire S side of my house started a long, slow, flickering descent. Ironically the wall charger was immune as it did not use neutral. The neutral was never bolted in properly, and it carbonized.

 

[Serky]

I have an issue when charging as well. My are UPB/HLC technology and also use the neutral to send signals for automation. When charging the Tesla, there is no issue. I tried the Tesla charger on the Rivian and still get the issue when charging. When charging the Rivian, it puts “noise” on the power lines and odd things happen. Certain lights only work by pushing the actual switch instead of working through automation routines. I have also reverted to charge at night when the lights are off as well. It does seem like more switches have been effected over time. Otherwise, lights that are on will not go off with automation or the app unless I stop charging. The company that makes the technology for the lighting controls was trying to come up with a fix but that has been long in the running so I have to live with it, get all new light switches, or move. Still not as bad as lights flickering over your head while reading though.

 

[mikehmb]

Afternoon all,

I've been having a problem for a while now and can't figure out the issue. When charging my R1T (only EV I have to test) my downstairs lights flicker.

Setup
I currently have 3 panels in my house, a main panel, with 200amp service. In that panel, I have a 60amp breaker for the Rivian charger 6' away. There is a 100amp sub panel beside it with all the downstairs breakers. Stove, WD, baseboards, etc including recessed LED pot lights throughout.
Another feed from the main runs upstairs to a second 100amp sub panel with all the same typical equipment /breakers including WD and HW.

The only lights that flicker are the ones running off the downstairs panel, and most noticeably, when they are dimmed to any degree. All upstairs lighting off the second sub panel don't seem to display the same issues.

My brother in law is an electrician and even he's having difficulty understanding the issue. He thinks it could be the feed from the pole causing it, but that should translate upstairs as well, which it's not.

We ran two experiments, one connecting the portable charger to the oven outlet, and the issue persisted. The second was lowering the output of the Rivian wall charger both from the truck, and then using the flip switches inside the EVSE. Same results from 3kW draw and up obviously the flickering was greater or more noticeable at 11.5kW or 48amp. And yes, we rebooted the wall charger so the jumper settings would take effect and limit it's output.

We checked the voltage, and it was holding steady, but unfortunately couldn't test the amperage.

He thought it might be the neutral wire not being connected, but then quickly realized they aren't needed.

If anyone has experienced the same or has any ideas, I'm all ears!

That would drive me batshit crazy.

What dimmer are you using for the lights on the affected circuit? I would start there.

 

[MountainBikeDude]

Can you post pictures of all three of your panels? Specifically interested in the breakers and all the different loads you have.

What does the voltage look like on the conductor feeding your sub panel when this is happening?

If you rule out any electrical issues or overloading I would try swapping out the dimmer switch with a standard switch to see if the problem continues. LEDs are very sensitive to power quality and some LED dimmers are complete garbage unfortunately.

It's happening with all dimmers in all rooms. They are all Lutron dimmers with the slider on the right side of the switch. Yes increasing brightness helps, but it's still there, just far less noticible. It sucks that I'm not there currently as I do have the same LED's on a non dimmer but never paid attention to if they exhibited similar symptoms.

The entire house was fully rewired during our reno's in 2021/22. New 200amp service from the pole into the house, all new panels etc, breakers are all "Square D" interface. The house was real "neat" when we bought it, the electrical panel was in the same skinny little closet you see in the left of the video as the water main. It was a fixer for sure, but the electrical was the main concern.
We tested to see if maybe it was just a draw issue and the oven could trigger a similar result on Broil, but no issues.

I will dig through my photos later tonight and post a picture of the panels, but currently I'm away from the house.

From your writeup I would guess the issue is the feed to, or the sub panel of, the basement - this includes slightly carbonized feeds (e.g. neutral), which most definitely can affect any device that uses it.**
Here's an opposite test: disconnect the entire basement sub panel: does line noise go down?
Also, did the Rivian WC operating normally/charge rate is normal, AND mobile charger worked normally from oven?

** I know this because the entire S side of my house started a long, slow, flickering descent. Ironically the wall charger was immune as it did not use neutral. The neutral was never bolted in properly, and it carbonized.

Good point, I'll look into the neutral.

The wall charger has operated flawlessly. I used to see around 11.5kW but since a couple updates ago which I believe de-rated it a bit, it runs around 11.1-11.2kW.

Edit, the portable charger would fault (go red) if I didn't de-rate the charge level. I think I needed it to be around 4kW, I also wasn't super cool with a heavy load like an EV running that full out.

 

[MountainBikeDude]

That would drive me batshit crazy.

What dimmer are you using for the lights on the affected circuit? I would start there.

Also tried adjusting the "adjustment lever" under the cover and it just stops the light from going full dim. Issue still persisted.

 

[MountainBikeDude]

I have an issue when charging as well. My are UPB/HLC technology and also use the neutral to send signals for automation. When charging the Tesla, there is no issue. I tried the Tesla charger on the Rivian and still get the issue when charging. When charging the Rivian, it puts “noise” on the power lines and odd things happen. Certain lights only work by pushing the actual switch instead of working through automation routines. I have also reverted to charge at night when the lights are off as well. It does seem like more switches have been effected over time. Otherwise, lights that are on will not go off with automation or the app unless I stop charging. The company that makes the technology for the lighting controls was trying to come up with a fix but that has been long in the running so I have to live with it, get all new light switches, or move. Still not as bad as lights flickering over your head while reading though.

That's interesting, I really would like to try a different EV on the same charger and see if that changes things.

Guess I'll have to borrow my co-workers Kia Soul EV for a weekend. Think he'll mind using the Rivian as a trade?

 

[Zoidz]

Replace one of the LED lights on that circuit with an incandescent bulb. Let me know if the flickering stops or continues with an incandescent bulb on the circuit, and we'll go from there.

 

[azbill]

You could be getting EMI (electro-magnetic interference) between the control pilot signal on the EVSE and the LED controllers. Both use pulse width modulation (PWM), which can generate a lot of EMI. Since your downstairs lights are closer to the charger, they pick up the interference in the dimmer circuit.

Sponsored