Level 2 charging causes my house LEDs to flicker

[NY_Rob]

Certain cheap, ie.. Home Depot house brand LED lights are very prone to voltage drop flicker. Better brands like GE, Cree, Sylvania, etc... don't flicker even when installed right next to the Home Depot brand LED in the same vanity 4-bulb fixture in our master bath. I no longer buy the Home Depot "Commercial Electric" house brand LED bulbs. I also thought our flicker issue was wiring related, but it wasn't, it was due to the low quality Home Depot brand LEDs.

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[Serky]

That's interesting, I really would like to try a different EV on the same charger and see if that changes things.

Guess I'll have to borrow my co-workers Kia Soul EV for a weekend. Think he'll mind using the Rivian as a trade?

I did charge the Tesla on the Chargepoint charger using an adapter and there was no noise issue. I originally had a Rivian charger but swapped that out to see if that was the issue and it was not. As far as I can tell, the Rivian puts the noise on the lines.

 

[Rividiculous]

Similar issue. Have a Chargepoint HomeFlex and lots of Lutron dimmers and a variety of LEDs of varying quality.

I’m planning to (a) try charging at lower amperage if I’m awake, (b) turn off the lights that flicker, and (c) when that fails, try my best to ignore the flickering.

 

[Robin]

??

 

[MountainBikeDude]

[

Certain cheap, ie.. Home Depot house brand LED lights are very prone to voltage drop flicker. Better brands like GE, Cree, Sylvania, etc... don't flicker even when installed right next to the Home Depot brand LED in the same vanity 4-bulb fixture in our master bath. I no longer buy the Home Depot "Commercial Electric" house brand LED bulbs. I also thought our flicker issue was wiring related, but it wasn't, it was due to the low quality Home Depot brand LEDs.

Some are Liteline slim 4" and others are a gimbal version of the same brand.

https://www.liteline.com/20000067-m.../4"-round-led-slim-profile-recessed-downlight

 

[MountainBikeDude]

Replace one of the LED lights on that circuit with an incandescent bulb. Let me know if the flickering stops or continues with an incandescent bulb on the circuit, and we'll go from there.

It'll be a couple weeks, but I'll Rin the test and report back

 

[MountainBikeDude]

You could be getting EMI (electro-magnetic interference) between the control pilot signal on the EVSE and the LED controllers. Both use pulse width modulation (PWM), which can generate a lot of EMI. Since your downstairs lights are closer to the charger, they pick up the interference in the dimmer circuit.

Seems totally plausible. I assume the only remedy would be to increase the distance between the two panels or charger kn general?

Obviously I'll just accept it is what it is over a full redo, but just curious.

 

[DucRider]

Are the grounds and neutrals completely isolated in the panel with the flickering issue?
Even if the neutral is not bonded in the sub, a circuit wired with a ground on the neutral busbar can create strangeness.

 

[Zoidz]

Seems totally plausible. I assume the only remedy would be to increase the distance between the two panels or charger kn general?

Obviously I'll just accept it is what it is over a full redo, but just curious.

The issue with some LED bulbs on dimmers is the dimmer sees insufficient load, and it gets "confused" regarding what's called the zero crossing of the AC power. The zero crossing detection in dimmers is also susceptible to power line noise and fluctuation. From several other threads having various issues, there is suspicion that the AC to DC inverter inside our Rivians produces harmonics on the power line, and that can certainly mess with zero crossing detection. If it stabilizes with an incandescent in the circuit, it's the probably the issue.

Harmonics are low power and attenuate with distance, so as you mention, a longer run could reduce or eliminate the issue. But that's likely not a realistic solution. A possible solution is installing a loading/filtering device made specifically for this problem.

 

[moondoggy]

Certain cheap, ie.. Home Depot house brand LED lights are very prone to voltage drop flicker. Better brands like GE, Cree, Sylvania, etc... don't flicker even when installed right next to the Home Depot brand LED in the same vanity 4-bulb fixture in our master bath. I no longer buy the Home Depot "Commercial Electric" house brand LED bulbs. I also thought our flicker issue was wiring related, but it wasn't, it was due to the low quality Home Depot brand LEDs.

This. Cheap LEDs are often the source.

 

[ne0phyte]

I had this problem with LED lights on dimmers too. after a lot of googling, I think it boils down to rivian's inverter not being as high quality as other manufacturers.

I can say this because I have had mutiple EVs of different brands (audi, bmw) using the same charger at home with no flickering light issues.

hell, I have 2 chargers (1 indoor and 1 outdoor) and I could be pulling 20kw charging 2 vehicles simultaneously and my lights are fine, with no voltage drop measured.

As soon as I got the rivian, my lights start doing the same thing you're complaining about. remember, the EVSE does nothing fancy, it just delivers ~240v AC to the car, which then the car's inverter changes it to DC for the batteries, so this is completely the car. The rivian's inverter is generating a lot of electrical noise, which the LEDs are sensitive to, especially on a dimmer.

Long story short, until Rivian upgrades the inverter, you have 2 options. Use incandescent bulbs, or buy a higher quality "flicker free" LED bulb thats designed to handle dirty loads.

I did the latter, and replaced all my LEDs with "Advanced Dimming" ones from home depot.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/EcoSmar...ght-Bulb-Soft-White-2-Pack-FG-04309/323034482

no more annoying flicker, but frustrating that I had to literally change all my bulbs from regular ones that were working fine w my other EVs

 

[SwampNut]

The LED’s on my bed headboard flicker when charging

Your truck is trying to tell you something.

which then the car's inverter changes it to DC for the batteries, so this is completely the car.

FYI, that's a converter/charger, not an inverter. Inverters are DC to AC.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_inverter

 

[Brian A]

Most likely the problem is with the LED lights or the Dimmer being used. If they are older (more than 4 years) I would look at replacing them with a newer version (Pick one to start with. Don't do all at once). Early versions of LED lights and dimmers were very sensitive to any type of noise on the line. Try to stay with name brands. Some cheap Chinese versions have major issues with this.

 

[defcon888]

Afternoon all,

I've been having a problem for a while now and can't figure out the issue. When charging my R1T (only EV I have to test) my downstairs lights flicker.

Setup
I currently have 3 panels in my house, a main panel, with 200amp service. In that panel, I have a 60amp breaker for the Rivian charger 6' away. There is a 100amp sub panel beside it with all the downstairs breakers. Stove, WD, baseboards, etc including recessed LED pot lights throughout.
Another feed from the main runs upstairs to a second 100amp sub panel with all the same typical equipment /breakers including WD and HW.

The only lights that flicker are the ones running off the downstairs panel, and most noticeably, when they are dimmed to any degree. All upstairs lighting off the second sub panel don't seem to display the same issues.

My brother in law is an electrician and even he's having difficulty understanding the issue. He thinks it could be the feed from the pole causing it, but that should translate upstairs as well, which it's not.

We ran two experiments, one connecting the portable charger to the oven outlet, and the issue persisted. The second was lowering the output of the Rivian wall charger both from the truck, and then using the flip switches inside the EVSE. Same results from 3kW draw and up obviously the flickering was greater or more noticeable at 11.5kW or 48amp. And yes, we rebooted the wall charger so the jumper settings would take effect and limit it's output.

We checked the voltage, and it was holding steady, but unfortunately couldn't test the amperage.

He thought it might be the neutral wire not being connected, but then quickly realized they aren't needed.

If anyone has experienced the same or has any ideas, I'm all ears!

Maybe it is the ghost of former ICE owners getting their revenge.

 

[MountainBikeDude]

Maybe it is the ghost of former ICE owners getting their revenge.

The Xterra i replaced with an R1T is trying to tell me something...


"What's that Exy, another set of rear axle seals, bearings, rotors and pads? oh and a replacement camshaft positioning sensor and while I'm at it a transmission rebuild?"

Nah, i'm good, let the lights keep flickering.

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