V2L (Vehicle-to-Load) - has anyone tried it?

[SANZC02]

Not sure anything will work until Rivian adds a software update to allow bi-directional.

Right now you plug in to DCFC charge and it goes through a negotiation process to start charging, until that process is done there is no battery access to the port.

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[JustPokingAround]

I keep this in the house for power outages, but if I bug out for a wildfire, I’ll bring this with me and plug it in to the bed outlet. This way, I can get 6000 watts output. You can set this to Quiet Charging Mode to charge at less than full speed charging at 1800 watts with the app.

https://www.jackery.com/products/explorer-2000-plus-portable-power-station

Maybe a dumb question but can these be used in 'pass through' mode? E.g. plug a sump pump into this, and this into AC outlet. So the AC keeps the Jackery charged, and if power goes out, the Jackery powers the sump pump (until the Jackery is drained of power)? And otherwise power passes through the Jackery to the sump pump?

 

[Cycliste]

Maybe a dumb question but can these be used in 'pass through' mode? E.g. plug a sump pump into this, and this into AC outlet. So the AC keeps the Jackery charged, and if power goes out, the Jackery powers the sump pump (until the Jackery is drained of power)? And otherwise power passes through the Jackery to the sump pump?

The short answer is yes. You can also

download the app, connect via Bluetooth (read the manual first on how to do this), and set if you want the battery to be fully charged or to maintain charge to 85%.

 

[JustPokingAround]

The short answer is yes.

Cool thanks. Time to do the math to see what sort of time I'd get from these.

 

[jpm0nki]

This would be a nice alternative to V2H since you could use something like this to power your fridge and maybe your wifi and/or PC. The real issue for Rivian (and the Wrangler’s Power Box) is that it only outputs 1500w. That puts a pretty sizable limit on what they can power. Still useful for camping but not a real alternative for true V2H.

Ford’s F150 Hybrid has up to 7200w of output while the Lightning has a whopping 9600w available.

One thing I would really like to see from Rivian is a better AC inverter. At at minimum they should increase the output to 2400w. That would allow 20amps at 110. Optimally Rivian could duplicate Ford’s ability to use 220v outlet. Though I’m not sure how much weight an inverter would require. Of course there is the added weight as well.

Having dealt with multi-day power outages from storms one of the things I'd really hoped to have was the 240v outlet in the bed like the Lightning and Cybertruck have. I knew my R1T didn't have it going in and it wasn't a deal breaker for me, but still wanted one We have a generator plugin for the house that needs a 240v L14 connector and I've instead had to run extension cords out of the truck bed to our fridge and freezer to keep them going. Still totally functional, but not as convenient as being able to switch over parts of the house.

I'd totally be interested in some sort of large inverter box that plugs into the CCS (or NACS moving forward) connector and negotiates DC feed from the battery in the vehicle to feed various size inverters to provide me a decent 5+kW 240v (like a NEMA 14-50) outlet. Like a generator without the engine and gas tank really. Seems like it wouldn't need to be very large and could be used for people who camp with trailers and such. It could provide this as an option to even R1 existing owners.

 

[Rivian Owner]

I'd like to see Rivian do what Tesla has done with the CT. They allow a full 40 amps to be pulled from a 14-50 in the truck bed.

As far as V2H or V2G I would like to see Rivian offer at least the same 40 amps but in a system that doesn't require a ton of installation cost. Ford's system is quite complicated and expensive to install.

The Tesla system is expensive to install as well unless you already have a powerwall. The Tesla system seems simpler as it only requires a UWC and a powerwall.

With that said one could do a lot with 40amps of inverted power. 1500w is just not enough to compete with what others are offering.

I think you are seeing the true cost of V2H and V2G. I've looked into this fairly deeply and there are a number of issues that make this much more complicated than slapping another box on the wall and calling it good. Depending on your infrastructure this can get VERY complex.

Systems I've looked at (without knowing what Rivian's solution will be) require at least some battery to keep the system alive (the rivian may not be at home all the time) if the power company cuts the power. Most systems recommend or require a priority or smart panel to control loads (I haven't checked but I've been told a smart panel can run north of $10,000 + install), although I'm guessing some of this is to manage consumption and reduce vampire drain when you are on backup power. If you want to have true bidirectional charging with solar panels or a wind turbine for those times the power goes out, you have to have a way to control the PV electrical production, something to route the power to the Rivian, power from the Rivian, power from the grid, and to make all the switching to the end user.....seamless. Add in the fact that there are a multitude of panels, inverters, batteries, and other devices and you realize you need a pretty sophisticated device to be flexible enough to be configured for the millions of different home installations and you begin to understand the challenge. Throw in the utility and local gov rules and regs and you begin to wonder if there will ever be an inexpensive reliable solution. Regardless of what Rivian releases, my guess is there is still going to be a lot of infrastructure changes you are going to need to make to get to V2H and or V2G.

For right now, I'm happy to have a couple of 120v outlets so at least I can keep my fridge running when the power company decides they don't want to sell me power.

 

[Jonger1150]

I'm kind of fund deprived at the moment, but -- I plan on finding some sort of Smart panel with a full ecosystem that is somewhat vehicle agnostic. I have a Blazer EV that can back the house up now, but will buying the GM system be a waste when we replace that with an R2?

Smart panel, Lithium battery, Vehicle charger, VTL or VTH capable EV?

Are we in a early adopter hell-phase right now with mismatching standards?

 

[Greenwater]

I think you are seeing the true cost of V2H and V2G. I've looked into this fairly deeply and there are a number of issues that make this much more complicated than slapping another box on the wall and calling it good. Depending on your infrastructure this can get VERY complex.

Systems I've looked at (without knowing what Rivian's solution will be) require at least some battery to keep the system alive (the rivian may not be at home all the time) if the power company cuts the power. Most systems recommend or require a priority or smart panel to control loads (I haven't checked but I've been told a smart panel can run north of $10,000 + install). [...]

I think it can be done for less than that but it won't be cheap. I have a cabin, I bought a generac 22kw generator from costco, it came with the switch for the whole house on/off grid power. It has auto startup and auto shutdown when the power comes back.

So when Rivian gets out their promised 22kw system that will connect to DC on the truck it should be able to do the same trick. I think the whole generator cost less than 10k including my whole house switch. Installation was something like 3 or 4k.

The cabin uses more power than 22kw if everything is on, I have popped the generator circuit breaker. If I go to charge the truck and the heater is on and the stove it's more than 22kw

I feel like in theory I need 3 things for my house: this whole house power switchover box, a transformer, the device / wire that goes from truck to panel. My cabin system is code complaint and inspected. I'm optimistic it could happen this easily at my house.

 

[Rivian Owner]

I think it can be done for less than that but it won't be cheap. I have a cabin, I bought a generac 22kw generator from costco, it came with the switch for the whole house on/off grid power. It has auto startup and auto shutdown when the power comes back.

So when Rivian gets out their promised 22kw system that will connect to DC on the truck it should be able to do the same trick. I think the whole generator cost less than 10k including my whole house switch. Installation was something like 3 or 4k.

The cabin uses more power than 22kw if everything is on, I have popped the generator circuit breaker. If I go to charge the truck and the heater is on and the stove it's more than 22kw

I feel like in theory I need 3 things for my house: this whole house power switchover box, a transformer, the device / wire that goes from truck to panel. My cabin system is code complaint and inspected. I'm optimistic it could happen this easily at my house.

Well if you don't want the ability to shut down devices that you don't really want draining the batteries needlessly when the power goes out, you can probably do without the smart panel, and use a priority panel that works in conjunction with the transfer switch.

Think about this.....your transfer switch responds to the generator and obviously the utility power. What happens when there are other devices controlling things? What about Rivian's device for V2H, how is it going to talk to the generator? A single device is easy, but you've already admitted you've tripped the breaker on the generator and you only have the option of generator or utility at this point, so maybe not so easy/automatic?

Controlling charging and who does what when, requires that all the devices speak the same language, which is where things get complicated. If you want to manually switch between say on-site battery power and the power company, no big deal. if you want to start having things switch automatically with decisions such as the utility isn't supplying power, the sun isn't shinning but the Rivian wants to charge and will drain your on-site batteries, you're going to need some smarts to get it all to work together. Oh, and if you want to use something like a 3rd party "box", such as a Sol-Ark hybrid inverter unit to , most of them require an on-site battery to keep the smarts working and to be able to energize the transfer switch when the utility cuts power.

 

[Greenwater]

When I tripped the breaker I just turned off a few things running and reset the breaker and started the generator. That was a success in my eyes. Yes, I know a smart panel would be a bigger improvements. Going step by step can be useful too.

 

[Zoidz]

...
Are we in a early adopter hell-phase right now with mismatching standards?

Yes.

IMO going down this road today and the foreseaable future is going to lead you to a mostly proprietary solution, whether it is Rivian, Tesla, Ford, GM, etc. and they are unlikely to be cross compatible. So if you buy the Rivian power solution next year, and then wreck or otherwise get rid of the Rivian, you are backed into a corner on your next vehicle.

A different way to approach this is to adapt the home wiring for the future now, especially if you are remodeling or building new. The issue of tripping breakers was mentioned. One preparatory step in a remodel, addition or new construction is to install TWO 200 Amp panel boxes and an automatic transfer switch. Critical lighting and refrigeration circuits are wired to the panel attached to the transfer switched with a calculated/managed load limit - 5 kw, 10kw, 20kw, whatever you expect to have for emergency power. The rest of the non-critical circuits are connected to the other panel which will lose power in a line power failure. This way, you probably have no need for a smart/load shedding setup - you have preplanned the load. No flipping breakers in an outage, etc.

Now you can connect a an ICE or multifuel, whole house, solar inverter, or EV inverter to the transfer switch. Use it today with a genny, tomorrow with an EV. This is how it is frequently done with Whole House Generators and is the setup I am using today with a 7.5kw gas generator.

 

[tjrivian]

V2H/V2G systems need a powerful inverter to convert from the DC battery in the car to ~240V AC needed in the home. That inverter is not going to be in the car. The car has to output DC and the inverter placed in the garage/home will have to convert it to AC. A logical choice for this is to tap into the grid-tie inverter that many people already have in their solar installations.

 

[Greenwater]

V2H/V2G systems need a powerful inverter to convert from the DC battery in the car to ~240V AC needed in the home. That inverter is not going to be in the car. The car has to output DC and the inverter placed in the garage/home will have to convert it to AC. A logical choice for this is to tap into the grid-tie inverter that many people already have in their solar installations.

I am at the point of wanting to start adding solar, battery storage, updating my panel. Since I have a Rivian I want to make it work with all this future stuff, but Rivian hasn't said much about what they are going to do in practice other than support it. And the standards are not ready yet as discussed here.

I have thought of incremental steps that I can build on.

1. Add a couple of powerwalls and the auto-switch for the whole house - this is available today
2. Add solar power later - new panel at this time
3. Add ability to use power from EVs V2X. Today I have a Rivian, tomorrow who knows.

If I get a couple of powerwalls, and a switch over for the whole house, that feels like a very likely step that can be well used in the future. There are so many issues. Every day I hear about a new Powerwall like device that is half the price of pw. Which way to go, I don't know.

I'd like to do step 1 at my house and cabin this year. Anyone else facing this choice right now?

 

[Kidentist]

Not surprised to see a few folks from the westside of WA commenting here. What a SH*T show a couple of weeks ago, heard horror stories. Anyway, I feel the Rivian might not be the right truck for some of these systems, but please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Greenwater]

Not surprised to see a few folks from the westside of WA commenting here. What a SH*T show a couple of weeks ago, heard horror stories. Anyway, I feel the Rivian might not be the right truck for some of these systems, but please correct me if I'm wrong.

Rivian said they will have a 22kw DC output from their existing vehicles and new vehicles too, so a DC output through the charge port with an inverter and whole house switch. It's just they haven't put it out there with any details.

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