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PBRAZ

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No, those acts themselves are not intrinsically illegal. I perform all of that on my own networks and for customers. It's the intent of fraud or illegal usage of the data that would be criminal.

SSL, like your bank.
White hat vs black hat, big difference. I would imagine if you hacked in to any of the 3 letter government agencies, but didn't do anything with the data, you would still be facing serious prison time.
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PBRAZ

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It's illegal when someone else does it to you, but when you do it to your own property, it's not illegal. This device is breaking Rivian's system to add functionality Rivian doesn't have. Because it is "hacking" into Rivian's devices Rivian has no liability for it's operation. I'm not sure Rivian has any legal standing to do anything about this just as they couldn't stop me from removing all my airbags or seats and putting in lawn chairs.

Those aren't good ideas either, but Rivian wouldn't be on the hook if I died in a crash because I was sitting in a lawn chair instead of the Rivian seat. I'd imagine it's the same thing here.
To clarify, I'm not really asking about the customer-facing side of the legality here. I'm asking about the recourse a car manufacturer has against comma's hacking of its software and hardware IP. Recourse that is either criminal or civil.

The fact that they haven't been sued by a car manufacturer yet could be telling.
 
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CTRedCanyon

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To clarify, I'm not really asking about the customer-facing side of the legality here. I'm asking about the recourse a car manufacturer has against comma's hacking of its software and hardware IP. Recourse that is either criminal or civil. The fact that they haven't been sued by a car manufacturer yet could be telling.
Same reason tuners can do what they do, but to an even lesser extent. For one thing the customer owns the vehicle and can make any changes they want - they're not replicating the ECU. Second the Comma just simply sits between the factory ADAS and the cars longitudinal/latitudinal controls, and sends signals back and forth to them both. It's not actually "hacking" anything, breaking any secret encryption, or anything like that. Those terms are more marketing than reality of how it works.
 
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Whale Blubber

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Based on a couple of responses I saw in the Discord thread concerning Rivian, it sounds like the version they've got working in a Rivian is relying on the unit's own sensors for now, not the full slate of Gen1 sensors and cameras. But it could well be I misunderstood what they were saying, as I'm definitely not a software engineer or at all conversant in this tech.
 

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CTRedCanyon

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Based on a couple of responses I saw in the Discord thread concerning Rivian, it sounds like the version they've got working in a Rivian is relying on the unit's own sensors for now, not the full slate of Gen1 sensors and cameras. But it could well be I misunderstood what they were saying, as I'm definitely not a software engineer or at all conversant in this tech.
From what I saw there they were using the Rivian radar/adaptive cruise information and potentially could use blind spot monitoring sensors, but using the Comma 3X cameras.
 

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Exciting progress! Lukas Lötkolben aka loetkolben on the Comma AI discord, have put in an amazing amount of effort and work and been able to partially port over OpenPilot to the Gen 1 R1 platform!

For those who have no idea what I'm talking about, OpenPilot is an opensource self-driving software that runs on a device called a Comma (current model is called Comma 3X), giving Tesla Autopilot type self driving functions on all streets - surface roads, highways, even unpaved and unmarked roads. I personally used it on past vehicles, and in my opinion it is the second best self-driving system on the market, behind FSD. The fact that someone is taking the time to make it work for the vehicles Rivian has basically abandoned is amazing! One tester reportedly drove 35 minutes on autopilot.

To be clear, this project is still in development, and additional work needs to be done to control the acceleration/deceleration, as well as fine tune some of the steering controls. It's not ready for prime time just yet. But this is a major milestone.

I am going to be buying an early access harness from loetkolben to help with the development, which is what will be needed to hook up the C3X device on the windshield to the factory cameras and other systems of the car. If anyone is interested in helping this project I'd recommend reaching out to him for a harness, as he said, it'll probably be cheaper later but buying one now helps make this possible.

Anyways, thought I would share the exciting progress with the rest of the Rivian community - there is hope! Our vehicles will very likely have vastly improved driving capabilities soon.

Thanks for sharing!

Two basic thoughts - hopefully not annoying:

1. I actually think that the driving functions are pretty good, but I came from a 12 year old CRV.

2. My major complaint is no basic cruise control - at least give it to us when sensors fail in snow storms!!! : ). I really do not understand why that is not provided.
 
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Thanks for sharing! Two basic thoughts - hopefully not annoying: 1. I actually think that the driving functions are pretty good, but I came from a 12 year old CRV. 2. My major complaint is no basic cruise control - at least give it to us when sensors fail in snow storms!!! : ). I really do not understand why that is not provided.
Yeah I don't think it's the worst system ever, certainly a lot more impressive than your last vehicle but compared to completive vehicles for the price or even lower (like Kia) Rivian is way behind on driver assistance. The lane keeping constantly cuts off even under bridges and overpass, or tunnels, randomly unavailable, doesn't keep to one side to give room to larger vehicles, doesn't always keep the lane well around curves, and of course doesn't work at all outside of major highways. My 2018 Kia Stinger had basic lane keeping on all roads - and car that cost half as much and is now 7 years old.
 

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Thanks for sharing!

Two basic thoughts - hopefully not annoying:

1. I actually think that the driving functions are pretty good, but I came from a 12 year old CRV.

2. My major complaint is no basic cruise control - at least give it to us when sensors fail in snow storms!!! : ). I really do not understand why that is not provided.
I live in the deep south so snow isn't really an issue for me, but I have to imagine the argument can be made that it's safer to disallow cruise control entirely (i.e., both "dumb" or "assisted) in weather that is bad enough to block the sensors such as snow, extreme rain, etc. -- not because the sensors are blocked, but because if the weather is that bad the driver needs to be in full control of the vehicle.

Not knocking you by any means for requesting it though.
 

LLJJ

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I put Comma3x in my wife’s 24 ford explorer and am blown away by how good it is. It uses the Ford radar for keeping distance from the car in front of you and fords lane change alert to keep you from changing it to a lane when someone is in it. Reminds me if using Tesla’s base autopilot. When you want the car to take over driving, just set the cruise and the comma takes over. It won’t avoid obstacles or anything fancy like that, but for my use case, I prefer to drive when it’s complicated and let the computers help when it’s boring. Also nice that there’s no subscription and when it works for Rivian, I can just buy the harness and swap the unit between vehicles. Should let the R1’s perform how many of us thought it was going to when we ordered one!
 

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I live in the deep south so snow isn't really an issue for me, but I have to imagine the argument can be made that it's safer to disallow cruise control entirely (i.e., both "dumb" or "assisted) in weather that is bad enough to block the sensors such as snow, extreme rain, etc. -- not because the sensors are blocked, but because if the weather is that bad the driver needs to be in full control of the vehicle.

Not knocking you by any means for requesting it though.
Good point. I m the guy who would keep it slow and distanced in that situation but ppl including me would be trained that the cruise slows for you, increasing risk.
 

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I got in touch with the guy working on this for the Rivian and he's got real chops. He's the one who built the harness and ported OpenPilot to the Model 3. I'm chipping in for development for sure. @CTRedCanyon, thanks for letting us know about this project! I've really missed having a decent ADAS in the Rivian and I stopped holding out hope it would ever get better. I'm really excited to see this in action.
 
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I got in touch with the guy working on this for the Rivian and he's got real chops. He's the one who built the harness and ported OpenPilot to the Model 3. I'm chipping in for development for sure. @CTRedCanyon, thanks for letting us know about this project! I've really missed having a decent ADAS in the Rivian and I stopped holding out hope it would ever get better. I'm really excited to see this in action.
Awesome! I have chipped in for a harness as well - I am very excited to see this come to fruition. It's probably what I would consider the biggest "miss" of the entire vehicle, so Comma AI will greatly improve my enjoyment of my R1S.
 

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You would have to let your insurance know as it is a modification. Also FSD rates low on the effectiveness of autonomous driving compared to other companies from data I have seen.
 
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CTRedCanyon

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You would have to let your insurance know as it is a modification. Also FSD rates low on the effectiveness of autonomous driving compared to other companies from data I have seen.
No you don't have to inform your insurance company lol where did you hear that? Forget whatever nonsense you've read, go down to Tesla and test drive a vehicle with FSD v13 for yourself. Then test drive any other vehicle, and tell me they're even remotely close in terms of capability.
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