80A L2 charging

[skyote]

If it is an absolute necessity, some small DCFC units are available that don't require 3 phase 480. They are even faster than an 80A L2 EVSE and can provide that charge speed to any EV with CCS - no built in dual chargers required.

I wasn't aware of this. Just curious, can you post links to some of the options you might recommend?

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[trickflow]

I wasn't aware of this. Just curious, can you post links to some of the options you might recommend?

Delta makes at 25 kw level 3 I looked at. Problem, if you use single phase 240, it needs a 165 amp breaker. Even with a 200 AMP service, you won't get a permit to put that in. You'd need to upgrade and in my case, they won't put in more than 200 amp service (I upgraded from 100 AMP when I had solar installed) because they would have to dig up the street.
https://www.evchargesolutions.com/Delta-EV-DC-Quick-Charger-Wallbox-p/deltadcfcsingle.htm

... and it costs $10k

 

[trickflow]

It is a common tendency to project your use pattern or desires in a vehicle to a large percentage of the population. Sometimes it is true, often it is not.

200 miles a day is 73K per year.

Work trucks and fleets have a greater need for full charging overnight than commuter/adventure vehicles. Rivian has a focused and relatively niche target audience. They are not trying to make their vehicles fit for every use case and every possible consumer. The F150 will appeal to a different customer base (with some overlap).

Rivian did not see the need to add home charging capability at a higher rate than 25 miles/hr. 99% of home charging will be covered in only a few hours at that rate. If it is an absolute necessity, some small DCFC units are available that don't require 3 phase 480. They are even faster than an 80A L2 EVSE and can provide that charge speed to any EV with CCS - no built in dual chargers required.

Regardless what all of this, the larger the battery to more charging capacity should be added. Even at 12 hours for the mid-pack is just too long. That's 1/2 the day. And the 400+ miles one at 16 hours is just borderline unacceptable.

We can argue all day about what is needed and what is not. Does a pickup NEED to accelerate at 3 seconds to 60? Does a mid-size truck need to tow 11k pounds?

This isn't scientific, but more of a gut feeling that I think lots of people will have. Overnight charging is what is the norm, and 8 hours is what most people believe that to be. And let's not geek out about an hour here or there. Even 9 hours would have been OK. But when the mid range pack is literally at 12 hours (remember they said 300+ miles, so that would give you some buffer for charging 300 miles as you won't be going from 0-100%) will be the talk of the competition.

And as you say, Rivian is going after a niche audience, namely the adventurous. Since that is the case, Emme Hall has proven that you use way more energy off-road than following what the EPA says this will do on-road. With that, I stand by my statement that charging is too slow for an EV with 135-180 kwh pack. 11.5 kw seems to be good for packs that are 100 kwh and less.

 

[Billyk24]

It does on the Bolt as well. I expect it to on the Rivian also. I can make it past the reduced regen without needing the mechanical brakes but it does require leaving a lot more space for the first 2-3 miles. Back when GM actually let me charge to 100% I could drive the entire 20 miles to work and still be in the range of full that reduces regen if I was really taking it easy. I usually only charge to 100% on days where I know I'll end up with less than 1/4 battery life left after my planned day. Lowest I've pulled into my driveway with was 3% on a day I charged to full, and did no other charging during the day.

It does on all EV's and PHEV. At 100% there is no room left for adding regenerative charge.

 

[jjwolf120]

Regardless what all of this, the larger the battery to more charging capacity should be added. Even at 12 hours for the mid-pack is just too long. That's 1/2 the day. And the 400+ miles one at 16 hours is just borderline unacceptable.

Nonesense. I have never needed to use that much range when I'm at home in my entire life. I would assert that the use case for this is almost nonexistent.

 

[DucRider]

Nonesense. I have never needed to use that much range when I'm at home in my entire life. I would assert that the use case for this is almost nonexistent.

It's not that nobody needs it, just not enough of Rivians target customers to justify the added expense.
And the 100A dedicated circuit for an 80A EVSE is problematic for a fair percentage as well.

 

[davrow_R1T]

It does on all EV's and PHEV. At 100% there is no room left for adding regenerative charge.

There is the option to put that regenerative charge into a resistor bank instead of the battery. It isn't all or nothing. It would waste the energy as heat, but still save your brakes.

I just don't like blanket generalizations.

 

[SeaGeo]

It’s not really 100% though, right? I thought new electric cars have a 10-20% buffer on both sides? I remember reading Tesla is more aggressive in letting you use the full pack though

It depends. Audi has a huge buffer. VW and Volvos both have very small buffers.

 

[Billyk24]

There is the option to put that regenerative charge into a resistor bank instead of the battery. It isn't all or nothing. It would waste the energy as heat, but still save your brakes.

I just don't like blanket generalizations.

There is the option to put that regenerative charge into a resistor bank instead of the battery. It isn't all or nothing. I----resistor bank? Point me to this item?

 

[trickflow]

Nonesense. I have never needed to use that much range when I'm at home in my entire life. I would assert that the use case for this is almost nonexistent.

Well, then for you, wait and get the 230 mile battery. Just because YOU don't need it does not mean that they should not offer it.

 

[trickflow]

It's not that nobody needs it, just not enough of Rivians target customers to justify the added expense.
And the 100A dedicated circuit for an 80A EVSE is problematic for a fair percentage as well.

Show me the data backing your claim.

 

[davrow_R1T]

There is the option to put that regenerative charge into a resistor bank instead of the battery. It isn't all or nothing. I----resistor bank? Point me to this item?

Apparently the more correct name is "load bank".
Quick google result for load bank

 

[DucRider]

Show me the data backing your claim.

The average annual mileage is 13,500. That's about 260 miles a week, not a day.
https://www.caranddriver.com/research/a32880477/average-mileage-per-year/
https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/ohim/onh00/bar8.htm

How many people will really drive 75K a year - returning home every night to charge?

 

[emoore]

The average annual mileage is 13,500. That's about 260 miles a week, not a day.
https://www.caranddriver.com/research/a32880477/average-mileage-per-year/
https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/ohim/onh00/bar8.htm

How many people will really drive 75K a year - returning home every night to charge?

+1. This is a very very edge case which will only be needed by very few people.

 

[trickflow]

The average annual mileage is 13,500. That's about 260 miles a week, not a day.
https://www.caranddriver.com/research/a32880477/average-mileage-per-year/
https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/ohim/onh00/bar8.htm

How many people will really drive 75K a year - returning home every night to charge?

If that's the case, why even have a 400 mile battery?

And that's not what I asked. If given the choice, would most Rivian customers want their car able to charge in 16 hours or 8? That is my question.

Not many people bought the camp kitchen according to the forum, but they still made it.

Annual mileage does have any correlation to charge time preference.

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