Idle fee hate

[SwampNut]

Once.

At what time? And then how many times after that if the charge slows down (as it did in that photo)?

Are you seriously unable to see that there's no one answer, and it would be stupid to wake up at 3am to move a car that's causing no harm? This is getting beyond silly. This seems to be a trigger for you?

I do get annoyed at PHEVs plugging in at a hotel charger, but that is their right. If I saw a driver doing so, I might strike up a friendly conversation during which I would bring up the need of an EV driver to charger vs. the desire of a PHEV driver to charge, but it is their right.

Good point, I see them using up places at shopping areas too. The Rivian doesn't need those, but I often do on the motorcycle.

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[mkhuffman]

At what time? And then how many times after that if the charge slows down (as it did in that photo)?

Are you seriously unable to see that there's no one answer, and it would be stupid to wake up at 3am to move a car that's causing no harm? This is getting beyond silly. This seems to be a trigger for you?

It's a trigger for me because I have needed to charge many, many times and been unable to because of one or more fully charged vehicles sitting there, hogging the charging space. It pisses me off beyond measure because it just demonstrates how inconsiderate so many people are.

One time I destination charged at a hotel my car was still charging when I went out to leave. As I was backing out of a space, there was a Tesla waiting for me so he could use it. This was at 6 AM. There is no way I could have known in advance someone needed the space at 6 AM in the morning.

You can't know who will need it and when, so do the right thing. The right thing is to move your truck when it is finished charging. That's it. It's easy. Not fun, but easy.

 

[SwampNut]

The right thing is to move your truck when it is finished charging.

Your view of convenience and right is the only correct one. The rest of us have no say.

Getting a full night of sleep is vastly more important than leaving an empty space among 12 others.

I say this with no hate or being an asshole, but you need help on this topic man. Really. There are competing needs, not just yours. Said as a guy with a motorcycle that has super low range, no DCFC, and constantly boned by assholes abusing spaces.

 

[mkhuffman]

Your view of convenience and right is the only correct one. The rest of us have no say.

Getting a full night of sleep is vastly more important than leaving an empty space among 12 others.

I say this with no hate or being an asshole, but you need help on this topic man. Really. There are competing needs, not just yours. Said as a guy with a motorcycle that has super low range, no DCFC, and constantly boned by assholes abusing spaces.

If we could reserve the charging space in advance for a fee, then you could sit there as long as your reservation lasts. That's the solution, IMO. Shared spaces are a horrible idea, and free charging is even worse. Charge a fair price to reserve the space, a fair price per kWh, and then the problem is solved.

For shared spaces, idle fees. Huge ones. Then if you want to hog the space, you pay for it.

 

[carsly]

If we could reserve the charging space in advance for a fee, then you could sit there as long as your reservation lasts. That's the solution, IMO. Shared spaces are a horrible idea, and free charging is even worse. Charge a fair price to reserve the space, a fair price per kWh, and then the problem is solved.

For shared spaces, idle fees. Huge ones. Then if you want to hog the space, you pay for it.

You reserve and pay for a room at the hotel. Why not reserve and pay for an optional charging space?

I like it.

 

[SwampNut]

If we could reserve the charging space in advance for a fee, then you could sit there as long as your reservation lasts.

Didn’t I effectively do so by booking a hotel and picking it simply based on it having chargers, while being in a general area that is convenient? Also, it was not free. I paid for the power too.

Idle fees for crowded chargers? Totally onboard.

 

[SwampNut]

You reserve and pay for a room at the hotel. Why not reserve and pay for an optional charging space?

I like it.

I've never seen that specifically, but have seen the option to pay for valet AND charge, so I guess you reserved it? In two cases, I asked valets, and they said they are "almost never" full and that they will NOT ever move a car when it's full without the owner being present. They don't want to deal with someone being pissed off about it.

But really my whole point here is that there are competing needs and a VAST array of different situations. We can't apply one level of judgement to all of them and everyone.

 

[mkhuffman]

But really my whole point here is that there are competing needs and a VAST array of different situations. We can't apply one level of judgement to all of them and everyone.

I agree but shared charging spaces are shared. Which to me means if I don't need it, I should not be parked there. It is how sharing works. I use it when I need it, and not when I don't.

It seems we probably mostly agree because you are correct there is no need to move if nobody else needs the space. In my experience it is very rare to have that much capacity, but it does happen.

Personally, because of my really bad experiences with charging space hogs, I will move my truck anyway. I just can't do to others what they have done to me.

If I don't need it, I want to move so there is zero chance I am preventing someone else who really does need to charge. Unless the space is reserved for me, I won't hog the space. Ever. And that is why I support idle fees.

 

[RivAW]

I got hit by a $30.50 idle fee in Hays Kansas at a RAN Charger when I was the only user at a 6 charger site. I even went out in the middle of the night to avoid it. I was expecting the idle fee to be $0.50 per minute starting at an hour but it charged retroactively the whole hour.
Tesla has congestion fees that only apply when most the chargers are full. I go out of my way to be polite and I am still learning charger etiquette but this seems abusive.
I got up and plugged in so that it would be done about breakfast time. I got an emergency call from work that took a while. My wife went out to move it as we approached the hour mark but she struggled with unplugging and we went 1 minute over the grace period.

$0.55 per kwh is like $5.50 per gallon for gas. Add in the idle fee and it is like paying over $10.00 per gallon.

I have almost 80,000 miles on my Rivian and this is only its second trip over 200 miles. I ordered it 1 week after it was announced and waited 3.5 years to get it. Whenever someone asks I tell them I love it.
Right now I am feeling like a sucker not a pioneer.

I know that I am making flame bait here. But I want to get it out here rather than at some charger in the future. This kind of stuff has to end or I will be eating humble pie in front of all my EV negative in-laws.

You have no one to blame but youself. It looks like the terms were clearly disclosed, you just ignored or misunderstood them. Complaining about it on a blog just makes you look like a crybaby

 

[SwampNut]

In my experience it is very rare to have that much capacity, but it does happen.

But you are judging us all by your experiences. Mine are that full stations are rare. I've never seen a full DCFC at all, and have over 100 charges at them. The only full AC stations I run into are at shopping places in busy city locations, never hotels or other destinations, never the outskirts or rural areas.

If I don't need it, I want to move so there is zero chance I am preventing someone else who really does need to charge.

It's what I do unless it's a pretty steep penalty (3am wakeup) or there is obviously no need (I'm the only vehicle).

You can't possibly know that I have a minor obsession/anxiety about never being an impediment or problem to others. It's how I was raised. But there are logical considerations too.

 

[KRIV_ian]

Just stop by any EA DCFC station at a Walmart in CA and I can guarantee it will be full and there will probably be a line of people waiting. That's why they now limit charging to 80% and many locations.

 

[RickRivian]

Just stop by any EA DCFC station at a Walmart in CA and I can guarantee it will be full and there will probably be a line of people waiting. That's why they now limit charging to 80% and many locations.

It's 85%, and it's not many locations, unless you live in California... https://www.electrifyamerica.com/soc-pilot/

The congestion at Electrify America or EVgo locations is solely due to the greedy as F morons running these companies, that negotiated for years of free charging with car manufacturers. There are people that didn't buy a home charger because they were given 2 years of free charging, and "by god I'm not going to miss out on that". Normally, a high speed charger had been largely populated by travelers, when this "benefit" broke out, that changed.

And, when Lyft/Uber came out with their "what, too poor to own a car and make millions, let's give you a huge discount / payment plan and you can clog up some chargers" programs.

I was really dumbfounded when I had a conversation with a fellow retiree, charging his car to 100%, at an EA with a line, when he didn't need the charge, but had nothing to do that afternoon and didn't mind waiting. Even after explaining those of us in line that were on a trip were being delayed by him for no valid reason except his desire to get free charging because he could didn't phase him.

 

[emoore]

There is zero chance I would ever sit at a charging station and not be charging. I find that extremely inconsiderate and very annoying. Doesn't matter if the station is full or empty, it's still inconsiderate. I realize I might be in the minority though.

 

[mkhuffman]

But you are judging us all by your experiences.

Absolutely.

 

[mkhuffman]

It's 85%, and it's not many locations, unless you live in California... https://www.electrifyamerica.com/soc-pilot/

The congestion at Electrify America or EVgo locations is solely due to the greedy as F morons running these companies, that negotiated for years of free charging with car manufacturers. There are people that didn't buy a home charger because they were given 2 years of free charging, and "by god I'm not going to miss out on that". Normally, a high speed charger had been largely populated by travelers, when this "benefit" broke out, that changed.

And, when Lyft/Uber came out with their "what, too poor to own a car and make millions, let's give you a huge discount / payment plan and you can clog up some chargers" programs.

I was really dumbfounded when I had a conversation with a fellow retiree, charging his car to 100%, at an EA with a line, when he didn't need the charge, but had nothing to do that afternoon and didn't mind waiting. Even after explaining those of us in line that were on a trip were being delayed by him for no valid reason except his desire to get free charging because he could didn't phase him.

Free charging in all its forms creates charger congestion. It sucks. I don't support a government ban, but man I wish it could be banned. I hate it.

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