Most efficient 20" tire?

[Riviot]

All you really need to do is get 2 identical Rivians with different tires and go do an efficiency test together on the same exact route at the same time. I’m not sure why Out of Spec hasn’t done it already.

Because it doesn't work that way. Vehicles are different, even identical builds.

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[Supratachophobia]

Because it doesn't work that way. Vehicles are different, even identical builds.

These aren't handmade bespoke Pagani's we are talking about. But if it makes you happy....

We can just get more cars! Two of each type in the test. Are you happy now?

 

[Riviot]

These aren't handmade bespoke Pagani's we are talking about. But if it makes you happy....

We can just get more cars! Two of each type in the test. Are you happy now?

 

[ksurfier]

Im here for this…

 

[140 degrees]

All you really need to do is get 2 identical Rivians with different tires and go do an efficiency test together on the same exact route at the same time. I’m not sure why Out of Spec hasn’t done it already.

Out of Spec did do this test with 3 identical Rivians for the Gen1 Tire options. There is a thread about it.
https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/...-range-and-efficiency-test-by-outofspec.8669/

For the nay-sayers that assert that there is too much vehicle to vehicle variation to make this a valid test, that was true for ICE vehicles but not so much for BEV. For ICE, there is a great deal of variation in everything from air filter condition to compression ratio to condition of the spark plugs. Digitally controlled electric motors have very little unit to unit variation. You can watch the video if you want to see how they controlled for battery temp and other variables.

Kyle, are you out there? We would like to see a test of the leading 20 inch AS candidates. Please?

 

[Bullwinkle]

How is the wears compared to the stock 21" Pirelli? I'm at 15K and it's about time to get a new set. Very disappointed at the pirelli so far.

MICHELIN DEFENDER LTX M/S2 is being produced in 275/55/21 and should be available to order in August. The reviews are much better than the stock Pirelli tiles, particularly in terms of wear and all-weather capability. Weight/range should be equivalent.

 

[Supratachophobia]

Out of Spec did do this test with 3 identical Rivians for the Gen1 Tire options. There is a thread about it.
https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/...-range-and-efficiency-test-by-outofspec.8669/

For the nay-sayers that assert that there is too much vehicle to vehicle variation to make this a valid test, that was true for ICE vehicles but not so much for BEV. For ICE, there is a great deal of variation in everything from air filter condition to compression ratio to condition of the spark plugs. Digitally controlled electric motors have very little unit to unit variation. You can watch the video if you want to see how they controlled for battery temp and other variables.

Kyle, are you out there? We would like to see a test of the leading 20 inch AS candidates. Please?

And it has to be 4hrs long.

@Riviot, where you at? We should do a our own test, with blackjack and hookers.

 

[LL75]

MICHELIN DEFENDER LTX M/S2 is being produced in 275/55/21 and should be available to order in August. The reviews are much better than the stock Pirelli tiles, particularly in terms of wear and all-weather capability. Weight/range should be equivalent.

you can actually pre ordered it on tirerrack. However, pepole said it has been pushing back to mid september. At his rate, Michelin might just abort this tire production since the demand will be really low due to Rivian abandon the 21" .

 

[Bullwinkle]

you can actually pre ordered it on tirerrack. However, pepole said it has been pushing back to mid september. At his rate, Michelin might just abort this tire production since the demand will be really low due to Rivian abandon the 21" .

Maybe, but there are a lot of crappy 21 inch Scorpions wearing out right about now! I assume the tooling is already produced at this point--otherwise we are 6 months plus out.

 

[Riviot]

For the nay-sayers that assert that there is too much vehicle to vehicle variation to make this a valid test, that was true for ICE vehicles but not so much for BEV. For ICE, there is a great deal of variation in everything from air filter condition to compression ratio to condition of the spark plugs. Digitally controlled electric motors have very little unit to unit variation. You can watch the video if you want to see how they controlled for battery temp and other variables.

Battery temp, motor temp, climate energy use and drive height/mode are the vehicle controls. Of course, same vehicle type with similar miles. I still believe there are motor and BMS differences between vehicles, the EV equivalent of your filters, compression ratio, etc etc.

Tire PSI and minimum 1k miles are the wheel controls. They need to be broken in and should be evenly worn.

Completing on the same day, same distance, same distance from vehicles ahead, same highway speed (because the drag coefficient. I'm not worried about total average speed, that gets thrown off when stopped at a red light consuming miniscule energy), in a loop are external controls. This minimizes temperature (vehicle, outdoor, tire, road), weather, and traffic, deltas.

@Riviot, where you at? We should do a our own test, with blackjack and hookers.

Will you pay for the marriage counseling and/or divorce lawyer? I've got a notebook collection that needs drunk. Drank? Drinked?

 

[sben]

Given the challenges/barriers to achieving a true objective comparison of efficiency, I examined Consumer Reports' metrics, especially pertaining to rolling resistance, and they (through a contractor) objectively measure rolling resistance on a dyno as follows:

"Tire rolling resistance is a measure of the rolling drag force of a free rolling tire, which is a factor in vehicle fuel economy. Testing is done by a contractor on a dynamometer, measuring rolling resistance through force, power, or torgue methods following the guidelines of SAE J1269 procedure and SAE J1270 information report. SAE is an industry body in the transportation field. This is a steady state test acquiring rolling resistance from a test matrix of four load and inflation pressure combinations at 50 mph. Tire rolling resistance can then be described in a linear regression as a function of load and pressure. Data can be reported as a calculated value to a specific load and pressure called the standard reference condition as outlined in SAE J1269."

They also appear to have a very robust way to test expected treadwear.

For what it's worth, in comparing Michelin Defender LTX M/S (they haven't yet reviewed M/S2) and Pirelli Scorpion AS Plus, I note that the Pirelli gets highest rating on Snow traction, rolling resistance, and braking (which, along with tread life, are my top priorities). Not sure why the Michelin gets the overall higher rating when Pirelli scores higher on most metrics. Couple of caveats: They place these tires in different categories (AS Truck, AS SUV), and I'm not sure if there's a different curve based on category. Also, the actual tires tested were different sizes; I presume they make corrections for size in considering rolling resistance. Hopefully they review M/S2 before I have to buy new tires in a couple of months.

For anyone who's interested in how these compare on objective rather than anecdotal testing (again with the above caveats):

I'm planning to purchase one of these options (except M/S2 not M/S) in 275/60/R20 to mount on my new (pre-ordered) Atomic AWZZ, which will replace my stock 21" wheels.

Let me know if anyone wants other comparisons from CR.

 

[HaveBlue]

We'll have to simply accept qualitative results from people. If it's better than before, it's more efficient. The variability of drivers, speed, vehicle, drive mode, accessories such as rtt, route, environment, heating/cooling settings, tire pressure will all supercede any comparative mpkw attempts between two people.

Best choice is a tire from a major manufacturer.
EV dedicated > all season > performance > mud snow > AT > MT
Or something like that

 

[Trandall]

I haven't heard any reviews of the Nokian One HT which comes in a 275 65 R20 (same as OEM 20" Perelli) and have a load rating of 3748# and speed rating 112.
Anyone have review of these?

I'm looking at getting a set if I can find a local tire shop that can get and install them with the 55K mile tread life warranty. Nokian also provides sidewall warranty for life of the tire.

If I'm able to get a set installed I'll report back with my findings.

 

[lslick23]

I haven't heard any reviews of the Nokian One HT which comes in a 275 65 R20 (same as OEM 20" Perelli) and have a load rating of 3748# and speed rating 112.
Anyone have review of these?

I'm looking at getting a set if I can find a local tire shop that can get and install them with the 55K mile tread life warranty. Nokian also provides sidewall warranty for life of the tire.

If I'm able to get a set installed I'll report back with my findings.

https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/threads/nokian-20-all-season-tires-one-ht-thoughts.14273/

 

[swhme]

FWIW, I’m about a thousand miles in to my Defender Platinums (275/65R20), and my gut feeling is that they’re about 5-10% less efficient than the Scorpions. That said, the weather turned a bit chillier and windy, so conditions are definitely a factor here, too.

Yesterday, I did 192 miles, about 130 of that on the highway at ~80mph, and 50 on the highway at 45-65mph. Total usage was 104.82 kWh, so 1.84mi/kWh.

Looking back at my data for similar trips over the summer (Santa Fe to Albuquerque), with good weather and Scorpions I was looking at 2.1-2.2mi/kWh.

Kind of a bummer… I was hoping to at least match the Scorpions. I’ll do another round trip later this week when the weather is better and see what I can get.

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