Qamera
Active Member
Sounds like a rough balance between the three, at least for most EV owners which essentially means Tesla owners (50% of EV market in U.S.). My guess is for a true SUV, there are other priorities as well.
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R2 Range Limitations and Rivian's Response
- Thread starter Bullwinkle
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Vik
Well-Known Member
Yes, I am guessing your cars have degraded at least 20% from new. Up until the latest generation of Tesla models, Teslas have historically under delivered on EPA rated range similar to the R2.10 year old S and 8 year old 3, 3 is ~250 miles range, not sure what if any degradation has occurred in R1S, less than 15k so who knows…
What happens to the R2 range when it is 20 F outside and windy?
jeeden
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I have said it on these forums in the past and to people that ask me about my R1S, range anxiety is a poor term that was adopted long ago. The correct term is "charging anxiety"
All these discussions about 100 miles of range one way or the other fade and will fade away as more charging and faster charging is available. Most ICE drivers couldn't tell you the range of their vehicles because they are confident they will always be able to find a gas station and fill up relatively fast.
IMO the EV market is approaching the same level of confidence; it will just be the new adopters of the technology that will still have the concern about it.
When I'm on a road trip I'm often ending my charging session early anyway because I know I'm going to stop again for food/bathroom/etc and charge up again so why not just make those extra miles a part of that stop instead of the current one.
rvnxyz001
Well-Known Member
I totally agree, some popular off-road gas vehicles have the same range as basic EVs on the highway, but they can be "recharged" extremely fast, and chargers are almost everywhere with easy access and no detours, but you have to pay a premium for this...
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Bullwinkle
Well-Known Member
- Thread starter
- #156
Kyle talking about the R2 test
savethemanual
Well-Known Member
OMG, can we please move on from hyper analyzing the R2's range...making a mountain out of an anthill as they say. I didn't watch this video, but Kyle did a legit test and added another data point so congrats to the OoS team!
mariandtheminer
New Member
My m3 p, from 2021 is at 82% capacity, and it started at 315 range day one (awful advertised range - as it never hit at or even close to it). And then it did nose dive from there on... It's FUNNY shaped, to cheat the air better at 70, that's why i like it (not for its looks, haha)
- I will soon have an R2 (I hope) that is a huge square box, that at 70 gets slammed in the face by air (but in town, might not be too far off from my m3 since there is very little wind load) - but to me, the R2 is gorgeous compared to my mullet looking m3p. (I love it). I think Rivian did well shooting at epa numbers for sales, and most everyone else will catch up to reality once they get one.
BRICK at 70 = bad
BULLET at 70 = good
Nothing much for Rivian to do (except tech aerodynamics, drag coefficent, and the diminishing return loop?)
- I will soon have an R2 (I hope) that is a huge square box, that at 70 gets slammed in the face by air (but in town, might not be too far off from my m3 since there is very little wind load) - but to me, the R2 is gorgeous compared to my mullet looking m3p. (I love it). I think Rivian did well shooting at epa numbers for sales, and most everyone else will catch up to reality once they get one.
BRICK at 70 = bad
BULLET at 70 = good
Nothing much for Rivian to do (except tech aerodynamics, drag coefficent, and the diminishing return loop?)
dcdttu
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...put in a 100kWh battery?
mariandtheminer
New Member
For the same $$$? yes! that would help get it closer to a good number for 70mph
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Tejkalra
Well-Known Member
Well no one is complaining which one is more capable or not. The discussion is about efficiency, when company is saying that the efficiency of both the vehicle is same then why 25% difference. I am not saying tesla is better or rivian is better. Both have there pros and cons but what they don't have common is efficiency.
rvnxyz001
Well-Known Member
This message is about the Tesla Model Y and is for someone coming from a normal, comfortable ICE car like a Lexus RX, Outback, Honda, etc., looking for an EV, who thought about Rivian, then saw the R2 vs. Model Y test results and thought, "Oh, maybe the R2 range is too bad and I need to get a Model Y now." Those reviewers said the Model Y is so amazing, super quiet, the suspension is amazing, and it is one of the most popular cars in the world, so the world can't be wrong.
So I'll share my experience. And this is not really about range. It is about what you actually get along with that range.
I drove the Model Y AWD Premium and Performance one after another. I don't know what they are saying about the improved suspension, but it is horrible on both. If you live in an area with bad roads, it will be horrible. The Performance, even with 21 inch wheels, felt a little bit better, but both cars were shaking me side to side so much that I thought my head would fly away. I drove the same road in my Outback Wilderness, which I thought had very rough suspension, and it was like riding in a tank by comparison.
Seats: Premium Model Y seats are extremely bad. They felt stiff, like sitting on a bench. Model Y Performance front seats are absolutely amazing.
Sound system is okay. It is not amazing like people say in reviews, just acceptable.
Now the screen and UI: you need to deal with it all the time. It is not like a normal car with buttons and CarPlay or Android Auto. The interface looks like Android from the 2000s. Some buttons have text that doesn't fit, icons are ugly, and almost 30 percent of the screen closest to you is taken up by a super distracting visualization and absolutely stupid controls for Park, Reverse, and Drive. It is so hard to use, and then the ugly map is somewhere far away from you.
There is no legroom in the back seat if I sit on the driver's side. I'm 6 ft with long legs and arms, and my wife can't fit behind me at all. The front seats are also so tall that the rear passenger sees a giant plastic blob in front of them.
The interior is soft everywhere but looks super cheap. One word to describe it is IKEA.
Visibility is horrible because of the enormous A pillar.
The glass roof is great and doesn't feel hot, but the giant windshield is where the heat comes from. I drove for 20 minutes and felt the heat the whole time.
Premium AWD acceleration is okay but felt kind of unimpressive and awkward. Performance is absolutely amazing.
Ground clearance: it was beeping when I attempted to enter the Tesla parking lot. I've had to enter much steeper places, so it will scratch for sure.
The wheels are ugly on any trim. Curb rash was already visible even on demo cars, and the plastic looks super ugly when it gets dirty.
So if you want a Model Y and your budget is around $60k, get the Performance. At least it has more fun. The Premium doesn't make much sense to me. I would not get this car even if it had 500 miles of range.
So I can't wait to test drive the Rivian. I don't care about its range anymore
So I'll share my experience. And this is not really about range. It is about what you actually get along with that range.
I drove the Model Y AWD Premium and Performance one after another. I don't know what they are saying about the improved suspension, but it is horrible on both. If you live in an area with bad roads, it will be horrible. The Performance, even with 21 inch wheels, felt a little bit better, but both cars were shaking me side to side so much that I thought my head would fly away. I drove the same road in my Outback Wilderness, which I thought had very rough suspension, and it was like riding in a tank by comparison.
Seats: Premium Model Y seats are extremely bad. They felt stiff, like sitting on a bench. Model Y Performance front seats are absolutely amazing.
Sound system is okay. It is not amazing like people say in reviews, just acceptable.
Now the screen and UI: you need to deal with it all the time. It is not like a normal car with buttons and CarPlay or Android Auto. The interface looks like Android from the 2000s. Some buttons have text that doesn't fit, icons are ugly, and almost 30 percent of the screen closest to you is taken up by a super distracting visualization and absolutely stupid controls for Park, Reverse, and Drive. It is so hard to use, and then the ugly map is somewhere far away from you.
There is no legroom in the back seat if I sit on the driver's side. I'm 6 ft with long legs and arms, and my wife can't fit behind me at all. The front seats are also so tall that the rear passenger sees a giant plastic blob in front of them.
The interior is soft everywhere but looks super cheap. One word to describe it is IKEA.
Visibility is horrible because of the enormous A pillar.
The glass roof is great and doesn't feel hot, but the giant windshield is where the heat comes from. I drove for 20 minutes and felt the heat the whole time.
Premium AWD acceleration is okay but felt kind of unimpressive and awkward. Performance is absolutely amazing.
Ground clearance: it was beeping when I attempted to enter the Tesla parking lot. I've had to enter much steeper places, so it will scratch for sure.
The wheels are ugly on any trim. Curb rash was already visible even on demo cars, and the plastic looks super ugly when it gets dirty.
So if you want a Model Y and your budget is around $60k, get the Performance. At least it has more fun. The Premium doesn't make much sense to me. I would not get this car even if it had 500 miles of range.
So I can't wait to test drive the Rivian. I don't care about its range anymore
WoodChips
Well-Known Member
11 pages and going quickly. I think all these threads and responses will get some attention.
Rivian was upfront and center with their range and efficiency saying it would compete with Tesla.
As a non EV owner I would have thought the comparison tests would have reflected a similar range, even if not hitting 330.
For those of us that haven't owned an EV range is a concern just as it was for most of you when you first entered the EV world.
In town I'm not worried with the range or efficiency. Would I like it to go father per change? Hell yes but that's only because electric isn't free.
But road trips are what many of us are trying to figure out. Does the diminished range still work for us? What's our most common road trip destinations and how many stops does it take?
The tests have shown me that I will have to make one more stop to reach both of my most common destinations. Maybe for many it's not a deal breaker but for us that live where the charging stops are still lacking it's a concern.
I travel on roads where gas stations can have gaps of 100+ miles. I don't really want to be limited to 60 mph to extend my range on roads that have 80mph posted limits, we all know what that means for the average driver.
If I'm not on my states only interstate the speed limits are usually 65 which would extend the range but the chargers along those roads are often lvl 2 speeds, no quick 20 minute happening there.
If feels like if I can't get 280+ highway miles than I might as well have a 150 range vehicle and not leave town but that defeats the purpose of spending the money on an R2.
It's a good thing I still have plenty of time before my order window opens.
Rivian was upfront and center with their range and efficiency saying it would compete with Tesla.
As a non EV owner I would have thought the comparison tests would have reflected a similar range, even if not hitting 330.
For those of us that haven't owned an EV range is a concern just as it was for most of you when you first entered the EV world.
In town I'm not worried with the range or efficiency. Would I like it to go father per change? Hell yes but that's only because electric isn't free.
But road trips are what many of us are trying to figure out. Does the diminished range still work for us? What's our most common road trip destinations and how many stops does it take?
The tests have shown me that I will have to make one more stop to reach both of my most common destinations. Maybe for many it's not a deal breaker but for us that live where the charging stops are still lacking it's a concern.
I travel on roads where gas stations can have gaps of 100+ miles. I don't really want to be limited to 60 mph to extend my range on roads that have 80mph posted limits, we all know what that means for the average driver.
If I'm not on my states only interstate the speed limits are usually 65 which would extend the range but the chargers along those roads are often lvl 2 speeds, no quick 20 minute happening there.
If feels like if I can't get 280+ highway miles than I might as well have a 150 range vehicle and not leave town but that defeats the purpose of spending the money on an R2.
It's a good thing I still have plenty of time before my order window opens.
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