Tesla Charging cannot be the standard NA adopts to.

[Dark-Fx]

Assuming they won't be bankrupt by then lol.

Don't worry, the government will end up shoveling money into the deflating corpse.

His team invented the protocol.

The new standard will be based on the Tesla protocol , but it will not be controlled by Elon... just based on Tesla's patented protocol.

Tesla's charging protocol is proprietary and will remain that way, as they haven't opened that up at all. The connector is what is "open". In use it will end up using the same signalling protocol that CCS is (v3/v4 stations already support it) but the connector is advertised as being protocol agnostic. But I have no idea why any charging company or manufacturer would rock the boat with a different protocol, so in a way it's a pretty useless distinction.

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[fluffhead]

The anti-Elon hysteria on this forum is hilarious.

 

[vcao]

No one has done DCFC better than Tesla in the United States. It's just better ergonomics. CCS in Europe has been very successful, but the U.S. implementation of CCS is so bad.

The fact you're in such fear of Elon Musk is as bad as the obsession he craves. Chill out. It's just a connector.

 

[mkhuffman]

I have really enjoyed reading this thread. I should have popped popcorn.

From what I read, there are two main points being made:
1. Musk is untrustworthy and will take advantage of his customers, and
2. monopolies are bad and anti-consumer.

In a free market economy Musk can't take advantage of his customers without jeopardizing the company's very existance, and monopolies that are anti-consumer cannot exist. So I guess people making these points are saying we don't have a free market economy?

 

[Meccanica]

As a Tesla and Rivian owner, this thread is pretty insane to me. I will continue supporting both companies and am thrilled NACS is being adopted. The Plug, yes the actual plug is much more reliable with internal latching mechanism that does not break every time its dropped and a third the weight. Not to mention all the other benefits. Sorry some of y'all are butt hurt over Elon having an opinion about things you disagree with (hell even I disagree with) but Elon is not Tesla, I personally know 3 people who work for the company and are thrilled with what they do to effect/affect change.

So much crying in this thread, rocket man bad, I want the crappy CCS plug.

 

[rraj2k81]

Prophecy !

 

[a76marine]

Prophecy !

Quoted before more information is shared and OP's post disappears.

 

[Tim-in-CA]

Prophecy !

Carnac!

 

[rraj2k81]

As I had expected, Musk will figure out a way to wiggle out of his commitment to open the SC network or at-least delay the whole adoption as long as he possible can,

Not good

 

[defcon888]

Came across this article in the Newyorker,
Elon Musk’s Shadow Rule | The New Yorker
and a couple of quotes stood out,

'Elon desperately wants the world to be saved. But only if he can be the one to save it.”

“Living in the world we live in, in which Elon runs this company and it is a private business under his control, we are living off his good graces,” a Pentagon official told me. “That sucks.”

“In the areas he wants to compete in, he has a very hard time sharing the spotlight, or not being the center of attention.”

And I am sure we will read more about this when the Walter Isaacson biography of Musk comes out.

This article sums up why I don't want BEV makers in North America to adopt to the Tesla charging network and keep upgrading the CCS networks, because we cannot go into a BEV reliance and give complete control and monopoly to a megalomaniac like Musk who would love nothing but the type of control he loves.

I do wish that North American regulators would push Tesla towards CCS like they did in Europe for federal funding, but short of this happening if BEV makers are going to adopt the Tesla standard, then I would like them to push Tesla to divest the Super Charger Network into it's own company, with an independant board of governors where Musk has absolutely no rights or say in it's operations or directions.

Personally, I don't understand how adopting to Tesla will fix the current issues with CCS, which is not the standard itself, but rather the integration. And this issue would absolutely be there when other BEVsstart accessing the Tesla SCs. Tesla also has to upgrade all current SC stationg to their V4s if the experience is even going to be somewhat smooth.

All of this also goes without saying, that there is absolutely no guarantee Musk would not do a complete 180 and say 'Nope, not happening', which I absolutely expect him to do.

I think if Tesla goes away the government will take over the standard of NACS.....well, it is registered as J3440 (i think that is the number), so, it is a standard now.

Will the government handle it any better?.....who knows, but I think NACS is a better option for EV's. The CCS1 standard isn't going away anytime soon, just like ChadMO hasn't gone away.

 

[DucRider]

I think if Tesla goes away the government will take over the standard of NACS.....well, it is registered as J3440 (i think that is the number), so, it is a standard now.

Will the government handle it any better?.....who knows, but I think NACS is a better option for EV's. The CCS1 standard isn't going away anytime soon, just like ChadMO hasn't gone away.

SAE is not "the government":

SAE International – Advancing Mobility Knowledge and Solutions​

Our Mission is to advance mobility knowledge and solutions for the benefit of humanity.​

SAE International is the leader in connecting and educating mobility professionals to enable safe, clean, and accessible mobility solutions.​

​

SAE is a global association of more than 128,000 engineers and related technical experts in the aerospace, automotive and commercial vehicle industries. Our core competencies are life-long learning and voluntary consensus standards development.​

The SAE standard for NACS is J3400 and theoretically limits what changes Tesla makes to NACS.

 

[defcon888]

SAE is not "the government":

SAE International – Advancing Mobility Knowledge and Solutions​

Our Mission is to advance mobility knowledge and solutions for the benefit of humanity.​

SAE International is the leader in connecting and educating mobility professionals to enable safe, clean, and accessible mobility solutions.​

​

SAE is a global association of more than 128,000 engineers and related technical experts in the aerospace, automotive and commercial vehicle industries. Our core competencies are life-long learning and voluntary consensus standards development.​

The SAE standard for NACS is J3400 and theoretically limits what changes Tesla makes to NACS.

sorry I misspoke. But, they do have the power to enforce certain things....maybe not this how it is written, but I would expect some sort of standard. It reminds me of before timezones were established.....I heard there were hundreds of different ones...there were railroad times and big city timezones!

 

[Dave Cundiff]

sorry I misspoke. But, they do have the power to enforce certain things....maybe not this how it is written, but I would expect some sort of standard. It reminds me of before timezones were established.....I heard there were hundreds of different ones...there were railroad times and big city timezones!

Danger of getting off topic -- but my understanding is that local times in each city and town were loosely based on when solar noon occurred in that town.

That worked fine with horse transportation -- but railroads had collisions when they couldn't communicate exactly, and understand each other exactly, about where each train would be at any given moment. So they began the process of standardization, and eventually government helped ratify the needed standards.

Part of this story, without reference to crashes, is at Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_in_the_United_States .

Best to all!

 

[rhumbliner]

This is a case of a vocal minority and things are moving anyway.

I would argue this is a case of the silent majority. In NA the vast majority of EV owners purchased a Tesla largely because of the superiority of the SuperCharger network. Tesla owners simply voted with their $$$.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

As I had expected, Musk will figure out a way to wiggle out of his commitment to open the SC network or at-least delay the whole adoption as long as he possible can,

Eh. Overreaction. Law of supply and demand rules ultimately. Largest group of EVs in service are Teslas. Each network will remain committed to NACS, so they can also serve and profit from Tesla owners. SAE made it a standard specifically to hedge against volatility at Tesla. The NACS plug is simply a more elegant and user-friendly interface. Smaller charge port form factor is also better for OEMs in terms of vehicle design, engineering and packaging. Any of the other OEMs would be a fool to reverse course and go back to CCS1. The [former] charging team at Tesla did their jobs well and better than anyone else in the business. Their firing was unjustified and plain dumbfuckery (NOT a genius move). They will get hired elsewhere, including by Rivian. Musk is just a mortal man, not a god. These folks who said no to him and got fired won’t be the last to say no to him.

I charged at 8AM this morning at a Supercharger for the first time with no drama, only 3 of 16 chargers in use. The nearby EA site (6) I used to charge at was full with a line of cars. Access to Tesla Supercharger is already proving to be a huge improvement in convenience.

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