Bi-Directional Charging

[SANZC02]

Btw- what’s the max we can get out of the inverter? I have a launch edition. I expect 1500w on a single AC circuit- but can i put out multiple 120 AC lines.

If you have TOU with your utility you can run the house off of the batteries during peak time and it recharges the next day. It has been working great for me going on 2 years now.

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[TexasBob]

RJ Reiterated again this week that R1 will have the ability to do bi-directional DC (time stamped 10:20 below). (Hoping soon is not s000n but actually soon.)

 

[Miketz]

I'd be happy with V2L or V2V, but V2H/V2G would be amazing. Please don't let us down on this promise Rivian!

I suspect Rivian will do V2V first as it is the easiest to implement. Lucid did it a few months back and it was nothing more than replacing the 240 volt charger cable connection with a 1772 and a software update. We tested it on our R1S and our son'e Model Y (with an adapter) and worked great on both. Both cars were charging around 9kW from the Lucid. I am now waiting for a smart device that can trick the Lucid to treat a 240V 40A connection to the house as a Vehicle.

 

[Dark-Fx]

I suspect Rivian will do V2V first as it is the easiest to implement. Lucid did it a few months back and it was nothing more than replacing the 240 volt charger cable connection with a 1772 and a software update. We tested it on our R1S and our son'e Model Y (with an adapter) and worked great on both. Both cars were charging around 9kW from the Lucid. I am now waiting for a smart device that can trick the Lucid to treat a 240V 40A connection to the house as a Vehicle.

Does it break out a neutral? That's the issue with J1772, it doesn't have a neutral wire so you'd need a transformer to be able to tap one off it.

 

[Miketz]

Does it break out a neutral? That's the issue with J1772, it doesn't have a neutral wire so you'd need a transformer to be able to tap one off it.

Looking at the two dongles it appears that both the NEMA 24-50 input and the j1772 dongles use the same connections.

 

[Chris TX]

Does it break out a neutral? That's the issue with J1772, it doesn't have a neutral wire so you'd need a transformer to be able to tap one off it.

You shouldn't need a transformer to get a Neutral. Just bond a Neutral to the existing Ground. If you're doing V2H, it would be bonded, anyway at the main panel.

 

[MacO512]

I don't understand why anyone wants bidirectional charging?

It requires an elaborate charger as well as a very expensive electrical panel setup. It's many thousands if not tens of thousands of dollars.

If the R1 just had a F150 style 240v port in the rear you get get a hundred dollar interlock kit on your panel and power what you need in an outage. That would also have more flexibility to work with a generator or an R1. It would allow an R1 to charge another EV out on the road in a pinch too. That's all I want and is a very simple setup many EVs have today.

I just don't understand why so many people say they want bidirectional charging. I suspect many of them don't understand the complications and cost of those systems, where a simple 240v outlet and generator interlock kit is all they need.

 

[Dark-Fx]

You shouldn't need a transformer to get a Neutral. Just bond a Neutral to the existing Ground. If you're doing V2H, it would be bonded, anyway at the main panel.

This is assuming they are actually putting the ground in a neutral position instead of it just being a path for equipment grounding. I don't have a lucid so obviously haven't tested.

I don't understand why anyone wants bidirectional charging?

It requires an elaborate charger as well as a very expensive electrical panel setup. It's many thousands if not tens of thousands of dollars.

If the R1 just had a F150 style 240v port in the rear you get get a hundred dollar interlock kit on your panel and power what you need in an outage. That would also work with a generator or an R1. It would allow an R1 to charge another EV out on the road in a pinch too. That's all I want and is a very simple setup many EVs have today.

I just don't understand why so many people say they want bidirectional charging. I suspect many of them don't understand the complications and cost of those systems, where a simple generator interlock kit is all they need.

Buy once cry once. If it's compatible with the spec it won't matter what vehicle I plug into it. It'll also automatically transfer the load instead of me having to dig everything out for every short outage. Especially important for outages that start in the middle of the night during winter.

 

[Polar]

I just don't understand why so many people say they want bidirectional charging. I suspect many of them don't understand the complications and cost of those systems, where a simple 240v outlet and generator interlock kit is all they need.

You underestimate those of us with solar who would use it to island in those off grid power outage scenarios. Which a 240 outlet in the garage won’t allow.

I’m absolutely aware and ready to throw money at it.

It really is those of us that know how it works and what it costs that want it.

 

[domoplaytime]

I don't understand why anyone wants bidirectional charging?

I'll be completely off grid when I eventually get my house built. Bidirectional charging gets me two things:

1. Cost savings on not buying extra batteries just for use during the week or so it gets dark enough here that solar isn't available.
2. The ability to drive to town and buy a tank of dirty electrons to bring back home, in the event that one stormy week becomes two or more.

Any money I save goes straight toward my R3X fund.

 

[Dark-Fx]

Of course as this conversation comes up, our power goes out. C'mon V2H!

 

[Deacon]

I don't understand why anyone wants bidirectional charging?

It requires an elaborate charger as well as a very expensive electrical panel setup. It's many thousands if not tens of thousands of dollars.

If the R1 just had a F150 style 240v port in the rear you get get a hundred dollar interlock kit on your panel and power what you need in an outage. That would also have more flexibility to work with a generator or an R1. It would allow an R1 to charge another EV out on the road in a pinch too. That's all I want and is a very simple setup many EVs have today.

I just don't understand why so many people say they want bidirectional charging. I suspect many of them don't understand the complications and cost of those systems, where a simple 240v outlet and generator interlock kit is all they need.

If you lived in a hurricane prone area you would understand. Whole house generator will cost $5000+. You also have to have a large propane tank and when power is out you could spend $100/day on propane to run the generator. Comparing the V2H to a whole house generator - V2H is a better option. It is not uncommon for us to be out of power for 5-10 days after a hurricane.

 

[SANZC02]

If you lived in a hurricane prone area you would understand. Whole house generator will cost $5000+. You also have to have a large propane tank and when power is out you could spend $100/day on propane to run the generator. Comparing the V2H to a whole house generator - V2H is a better option. It is not uncommon for us to be out of power for 5-10 days after a hurricane.

It will probably cost a few thousand to setup the VtoH as well. You will need a bidirectional charger and a grid cutoff switch. Might be a little cheaper if you already have a battery backup to connect to but there is a cost to setting this up.

Edit: Emporia Energy has a VtoX charger coming in 2025.

 

[MacO512]

If you lived in a hurricane prone area you would understand. Whole house generator will cost $5000+. You also have to have a large propane tank and when power is out you could spend $100/day on propane to run the generator. Comparing the V2H to a whole house generator - V2H is a better option. It is not uncommon for us to be out of power for 5-10 days after a hurricane.

V2H charger could power your house until the car is out of power for what 5-10k+?

It doesn't replace any of those generator backup power solutions because it's only until the vehicle is dead. Then your driving around trying to charge it.

Interlock kit with a generator plug for a $100 or so can do the same from any F150 lightning type of vehicles that has 240v output. But its also more redundant and flexible since a generator could be swapped out for that now dead vehicle. You'd have more power backup options.

Guess I'm just having trouble seeing the advantage of V2H chargers stuck in a CCS port.

Maybe if you want an automatic backup if your vehicle is plugged in and nobody is home but you need uninterrupted power, at a residence. Or for some reason your majority inconvenienced to take 30 seconds to plug in a cable and flip a switch in your panel on a power outage.

I just don't see the advantage for 99% of cases where you want power backup.

I want the R1 to have a 240 volt 30-50 amp output, Id prefer it's a simple plug in the back and doesn't require thousands of dollars to go backwards through the CCS port.

 

[TexasBob]

V2H charger could power your house until the car is out of power for what 5-10k+?

It doesn't replace any of those generator backup power solutions because it's only until the vehicle is dead. Then your driving around trying to charge it.

Interlock kit with a generator plug for a $100 or so can do the same from any F150 lightning type of vehicles that has 240v output. But its also more redundant and flexible since a generator could be swapped out for that now dead vehicle. You'd have more power backup options.

Guess I'm just having trouble seeing the advantage of V2H chargers stuck in a CCS port.

Maybe if you want an automatic backup if your vehicle is plugged in and nobody is home but you need uninterrupted power, at a residence. Or for some reason your majority inconvenienced to take 30 seconds to plug in a cable and flip a switch in your panel on a power outage.

I just don't see the advantage for 99% of cases where you want power backup.

I want the R1 to have a 240 volt 30-50 amp output, Id prefer it's a simple plug in the back and doesn't require thousands of dollars to go backwards through the CCS port.

We are planning to putting in as part of an integrated solar solution on a new build. We are putting in 18 kw of solar, and 27kwh of power walls. This is fine for all day-to-day power needs but in an extended outage due to hurricane, having the Rivian as an extended backup eliminates the need for a Generac. It creates a bigger buffer with solar as a refill. We were down for 10 days during Ike and three days during the winter outage. The alternative is to add an additional powerwall or a generator.

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