Cancelling my Pre-order, thoughts inside from test drive

[rfkxyz]

Lastly, it’s not necessary to put someone down for what they want or think. But that’s what happens on all the vehicle forums I’m on. I do get tired of all the belittling, snarky comments. I’m sure I’ll get blasted, but I won’t wear my feeling on my shoulders. That kind of stuff just makes many people leave the forum and lose some good advice and input. It only makes you feel good about yourself and doesn’t reflect well on Rivian, Kia, Hyundai, Tesla, and the like.

You do what’s right for you, and I’ll do what’s right for me.

Precisely. Besides, I pay cash for new cars, file the title, and drive them forever. So good to read every last (even petty) complaint to be more informed. Supports, you know, critical thinking.

For those that seem to care - I drive XC90 and wife drives Grand Highlander Hybrid. New driver in the family gets dad’s old Volvo late next summer, hence my target for early-MY28. But how does any of that even matter here?

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[DevSecOps]

I am totally NOT making that up. Eucalyptus green in full watermelon

And if that is not watermelon-y enough then you can special order in Java Green with red interior

(There is something wrong with our friends in Munich.)

I actually really like the Eucalyptus green myself. I don't think it's at all watermelonish. Now, Java green I'll pass on. I don't desire that level of attention.

 

[NC-Rivian]

I took a test drive in a Model Y for the first time yesterday, and it ticks enough of the boxes from above that I'm going to be mostly satisfied with it. I just wish it had a better tow rating.

Well, a MYLR, while a nice vehicle (I drone one for a year), won’t address any of your biggest R2 complaints except for the aftermarket toys.

Here are the questions I asked the salesperson:

1. can I purchase a set of 19" wheels from you?
2. how do I engage auto park?
3. where is Rivian assistant?
4. how do I initiate a lane change via Autonomy+?
5. what are your financing options going to look like?
6. which software features are included for free vs. paid? Is there a place that I can find a list of all the functions that I have to pay for?

I didn't ask combative questions.

Hint: there’s this new thing called the InterWeb that you can use to quickly find lots of answers to your questions. To be fair, the salesperson should have been able to succinctly answer questions and explain details. But, my experience with the Tesla salesperson when I bought my MYLR wasn’t much better.

 

[graytag]

I'm going to make this post a list of all the things that led to my decision to cancel my pre-order. Hopefully this information will be read by someone who can use the information to make a better product in the future! My whole investigation into the Rivian software/hardware has essentially been a good-faith investigation into the brand.

• Above all, the lack of CarPlay/Android Auto is the biggest factor in my decision to cancel. The Rivian software is not better than CarPlay, and based on the other posts that I've read spanning years of Rivian software developments, I can comfortably say at this point that the speed of software iteration at Rivian is not confidence-inspiring. I don't want to wait for the Rivian software to "maybe someday" duplicate all the functions already present in CarPlay, when I can simply just use CarPlay right now. Below I'll list things that I cannot duplicate from CarPlay/AA within the Rivian software ecosystem:
  • HomeKit support for accessories (and Google/Alexa integrations on the Android side), especially a garage door opener. Granted, Rivian has the best implementation of this in their software because they emulate an old radio frequency based dumb-opener, but I need this functionality on day 1, at no charge.
  • Waze. I want the mapping software to have a social element to it. Waze essentially is a democratic service that allows for alerts that would otherwise be illegal/gray area if integrated into major mapping apps like Google Maps. I want to know where the speed cameras are, where obstructions are, and I want to hear from other drivers what they think about local roads, whether that info is "politically correct" or not.
  • Apple Music, Apple Podcasts, or whatever music app I want. I don't want to rely on Rivian software building an app. I want to be able to use any media app at all times.
  • Apple Maps is simply better than Google Maps for navigation. I use both Apple Maps and Google Maps, and Apple's maps generally are the most performant, and look the most polished. The old days of Apple Maps leading you off a cliff into a lake have been passed over by almost a decade now.
  • Personal wallpapers. I don't want to look at a large scale cartoon drawing of the car I'm already driving in. It's a lot like flying an American flag in America. "You're in America, so no need to state the obvious." I want customization.
  • I don't want to be "advertised" the brand at every turn in the software. CarPlay/AA does a fantastic job removing the car branding so I can have my own personal customization to make the car feel like "mine".
  • I'm able to write my own apps and use them in CarPlay.
  • I want the UI to have Glass-like transparency throughout.
  • Siri/Gemini/Alexa is leagues more reliable than any other assistant I've used, especially with personal context.
  • I rely on on-screen tapbacks for messages while driving.
  • App based ETA/location sharing (not text message based)
• Lack of accessories compared to Teslas. Almost all of the hardware/software features that Tesla doesn't support can be added with aftermarket parts. CarPlay/AA, auto presenting doorhandles, LED lightbar customizations, Sunroof covers, extra physical knobs (thanks in part to the extensibility support offered by the Tesla infotainment software), driver display, etc. Tesla Accessories. To be fair, Rivian does have accessories too, but they're not nearly as powerful as the competition, because of the lack of volume sales, and support by Rivian corporate.
• Lack of a 19" wheel option with the Launch Edition. I want to be able to maximize range, and to do that I need the smallest, lightest possible wheel. I asked about buying a set of 19" wheels, and I was told not to bother doing so by the salesperson.
• The Rivian infotainment software features that will be missing at launch. Never ever buy a product predicated on the promise of future software features. Also, if these basic features from the R1 can't make it to the R2 by launch, it'll take even longer for software features to be released based on customer feedback on the R2.
  • Rivian Assistant
  • Camping Mode
  • Garage Door support
  • Climate Hold
  • Pet Mode
  • Gear Guard will be present but with limited functionality.
• The halo wheels were awful outside of vertical scrolling; I just couldn’t get left and right clicks to trigger. The software integration with them was awful and I found myself not immediately understanding when I could go left/right/forward/backwards in a menu. Pressing into the wheels and pressing behind the wheels felt better than left/right clicks, but I wanted them to feel like the middle click on a mouse, and absolutely didn't feel that in my hands-on.
  • Scrolling with the wheels felt better than excellent. Definitely the best scroll wheel I’ve ever used in any product, ever.
• The lack of 2 pedal driving (forward creep) was unbelievably disappointing.
  • people coming from an ICE car are going to be disappointed by the lack of 2 pedal driving. Parking into a tight garage is also way harder without a coasting feature.
• The sales rep straight up couldn’t answer any intermediate level questions, and just seemed in a rush to get back to his desk in the empty waiting room. Not super confidence-inspiring service. These vehicles that are software defined need a rep dedicated to all the particulars, because if I can't find something in the software with my 20 years of software development, a non-tech person would be just lost.
• Super disappointed that there’s no option to delete the sunroof. I’d much much much prefer to have a metal roof. Here in the southwest, having a sunroof that can't be covered up is a huge loss.
  • besides the obvious heat-issues, getting a crack is a giant pane of glass on the roof is just not something I want to be possible. Here in the southwest, rocks fly at you all the time, and glass coverage isn't free anymore like it used to be with insurance.
• Autonomy+ issues
  • I couldn't get the car to switch lanes autonomously on my test drive (on excellent surface streets; I didn't have time to get on the highway to test it there)
  • I couldn't find an auto park function. I had to park the vehicle manually when I returned to the service center.
• Cruise control/driving dynamics
  • I really liked being able to set a speed in the cruise control with the +1 and +5 increments, but my Prius/Rav4 did a better job of that with the single pull down/push up for incremental speed changes in cruise control speed. The knobs method on the R2 felt worse from a UX perspective.
  • The brake regen felt like I was hard braking even with the lightest and most careful manipulation of the accelerator pedal. I simply couldn't come to a clean, limo-like stop like I can in my Lightning (which has 2 pedal, coasting mode enabled)
• The color choices were just awful. I wanted more bold color choices besides Catalina Cove and Borealis. Ideally, I'd want a watermelon green, but that's just me.
  • since these cars are made to order, there shouldn't be an issue with custom color selection if they're hand painted anyway
  • give me an RGB slider to customize the paint to whatever I want in the configurator (I'd be willing to pay extra for this)

Haven't read the full thread but, OK, Ken or Karen. So, you want a computer on wheels and this ain't it. Most of your cons are my pros.

 

[Megaman0025]

I'm going to make this post a list of all the things that led to my decision to cancel my pre-order. Hopefully this information will be read by someone who can use the information to make a better product in the future! My whole investigation into the Rivian software/hardware has essentially been a good-faith investigation into the brand.

• Above all, the lack of CarPlay/Android Auto is the biggest factor in my decision to cancel. The Rivian software is not better than CarPlay, and based on the other posts that I've read spanning years of Rivian software developments, I can comfortably say at this point that the speed of software iteration at Rivian is not confidence-inspiring. I don't want to wait for the Rivian software to "maybe someday" duplicate all the functions already present in CarPlay, when I can simply just use CarPlay right now. Below I'll list things that I cannot duplicate from CarPlay/AA within the Rivian software ecosystem:
  • HomeKit support for accessories (and Google/Alexa integrations on the Android side), especially a garage door opener. Granted, Rivian has the best implementation of this in their software because they emulate an old radio frequency based dumb-opener, but I need this functionality on day 1, at no charge.
  • Waze. I want the mapping software to have a social element to it. Waze essentially is a democratic service that allows for alerts that would otherwise be illegal/gray area if integrated into major mapping apps like Google Maps. I want to know where the speed cameras are, where obstructions are, and I want to hear from other drivers what they think about local roads, whether that info is "politically correct" or not.
  • Apple Music, Apple Podcasts, or whatever music app I want. I don't want to rely on Rivian software building an app. I want to be able to use any media app at all times.
  • Apple Maps is simply better than Google Maps for navigation. I use both Apple Maps and Google Maps, and Apple's maps generally are the most performant, and look the most polished. The old days of Apple Maps leading you off a cliff into a lake have been passed over by almost a decade now.
  • Personal wallpapers. I don't want to look at a large scale cartoon drawing of the car I'm already driving in. It's a lot like flying an American flag in America. "You're in America, so no need to state the obvious." I want customization.
  • I don't want to be "advertised" the brand at every turn in the software. CarPlay/AA does a fantastic job removing the car branding so I can have my own personal customization to make the car feel like "mine".
  • I'm able to write my own apps and use them in CarPlay.
  • I want the UI to have Glass-like transparency throughout.
  • Siri/Gemini/Alexa is leagues more reliable than any other assistant I've used, especially with personal context.
  • I rely on on-screen tapbacks for messages while driving.
  • App based ETA/location sharing (not text message based)
• Lack of accessories compared to Teslas. Almost all of the hardware/software features that Tesla doesn't support can be added with aftermarket parts. CarPlay/AA, auto presenting doorhandles, LED lightbar customizations, Sunroof covers, extra physical knobs (thanks in part to the extensibility support offered by the Tesla infotainment software), driver display, etc. Tesla Accessories. To be fair, Rivian does have accessories too, but they're not nearly as powerful as the competition, because of the lack of volume sales, and support by Rivian corporate.
• Lack of a 19" wheel option with the Launch Edition. I want to be able to maximize range, and to do that I need the smallest, lightest possible wheel. I asked about buying a set of 19" wheels, and I was told not to bother doing so by the salesperson.
• The Rivian infotainment software features that will be missing at launch. Never ever buy a product predicated on the promise of future software features. Also, if these basic features from the R1 can't make it to the R2 by launch, it'll take even longer for software features to be released based on customer feedback on the R2.
  • Rivian Assistant
  • Camping Mode
  • Garage Door support
  • Climate Hold
  • Pet Mode
  • Gear Guard will be present but with limited functionality.
• The halo wheels were awful outside of vertical scrolling; I just couldn’t get left and right clicks to trigger. The software integration with them was awful and I found myself not immediately understanding when I could go left/right/forward/backwards in a menu. Pressing into the wheels and pressing behind the wheels felt better than left/right clicks, but I wanted them to feel like the middle click on a mouse, and absolutely didn't feel that in my hands-on.
  • Scrolling with the wheels felt better than excellent. Definitely the best scroll wheel I’ve ever used in any product, ever.
• The lack of 2 pedal driving (forward creep) was unbelievably disappointing.
  • people coming from an ICE car are going to be disappointed by the lack of 2 pedal driving. Parking into a tight garage is also way harder without a coasting feature.
• The sales rep straight up couldn’t answer any intermediate level questions, and just seemed in a rush to get back to his desk in the empty waiting room. Not super confidence-inspiring service. These vehicles that are software defined need a rep dedicated to all the particulars, because if I can't find something in the software with my 20 years of software development, a non-tech person would be just lost.
• Super disappointed that there’s no option to delete the sunroof. I’d much much much prefer to have a metal roof. Here in the southwest, having a sunroof that can't be covered up is a huge loss.
  • besides the obvious heat-issues, getting a crack is a giant pane of glass on the roof is just not something I want to be possible. Here in the southwest, rocks fly at you all the time, and glass coverage isn't free anymore like it used to be with insurance.
• Autonomy+ issues
  • I couldn't get the car to switch lanes autonomously on my test drive (on excellent surface streets; I didn't have time to get on the highway to test it there)
  • I couldn't find an auto park function. I had to park the vehicle manually when I returned to the service center.
• Cruise control/driving dynamics
  • I really liked being able to set a speed in the cruise control with the +1 and +5 increments, but my Prius/Rav4 did a better job of that with the single pull down/push up for incremental speed changes in cruise control speed. The knobs method on the R2 felt worse from a UX perspective.
  • The brake regen felt like I was hard braking even with the lightest and most careful manipulation of the accelerator pedal. I simply couldn't come to a clean, limo-like stop like I can in my Lightning (which has 2 pedal, coasting mode enabled)
• The color choices were just awful. I wanted more bold color choices besides Catalina Cove and Borealis. Ideally, I'd want a watermelon green, but that's just me.
  • since these cars are made to order, there shouldn't be an issue with custom color selection if they're hand painted anyway
  • give me an RGB slider to customize the paint to whatever I want in the configurator (I'd be willing to pay extra for this)

I'm 100 percent with you on the lack of "creep" mode. This should absolutely be a standard feature - it helps with transition from ICE and it's also just easier to drive in tight spaces, like backing out of your driveway. Creep NEEDS to be a function. Not sure I can live without it moving forward (I still have it in my 2022 model 3).

 

[TexasBob]

I actually really like the Eucalyptus green myself. I don't think it's at all watermelonish.

You say that like being "watermelonish" is a bad thing. If there is one thing we have definitively established in this thread, it is that a watermelon-y color scheme is a specific and under-served market. I, for one, think the emerging "melon gap" with Europe is significant. Sadly, it may be necessary to implement a tariff on the watermelon color scheme to protect American workers from unfair competition. I mean how else could BMW offer the full-melon treatment at no extra cost while Rivian is charging $2,000 each for different shades of gray with black interior? How? I think we all know. There are hidden subsidies at work here.

 

[Jeremy3292]

Unclear why this would help anyone - nearly all of the things referenced are well known and in some cases features of the car. This is akin to someone posting how they aren’t buying the R2 because it lacks a gas engine and isn’t a convertible. I don’t care who does or doesn’t buy one but these self important posts are nothing but pointless cries for attention.

Exactly. There's an entire dedicated demo drive thread but people love posting their own thread to feel important, as if their opinions outweigh anyone elses. I've tried to get the mods to combine all these pointless threads when they pop up but to no avail.

 

[Holler Wanderer]

I'm sorry you feel that way and everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I don't get the love for Car Play/Android Auto. To me, it's very clunky and not user-friendly.

 

[Captain JB]

For sure, the lack of Car Play and a full size spare in an off road vehicle were Rivians biggest mistakes.

 

[Megaman0025]

I really, truly don't understand why Car Play is so important. It is a redundant process. It's simply mirroring everything that is already on your phone and connecting the phone to Bluetooth does literally everything you'd need from it anyways.

 

[rfkxyz]

Creep NEEDS to be a function. Not sure I can live without it moving forward

I don’t think you realized what you did there?

 

[Thebandit]

I'm sorry you feel that way and everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I don't get the love for Car Play/Android Auto. To me, it's very clunky and not user-friendly.

I will probably get over it, but I am worried about it. I use an audiobook app and a podcast app, neither of which exist on Rivian. So the only way I'll be able to listen to my audiobooks and podcasts will be to use Bluetooth, using my phone as a controller. Which means I'll need to mount my phone somewhere accessible, which is annoying. Android Auto is really easy because it allows the app to just appear on the screen.

The other thing is offline music. Rivian doesn't do offline music. I have my entire Spotify library downloaded to my phone in high quality. Rivian, just, like..... doesn't do that at all. Songs will be slower to search and load, and won't work at all if I'm out of a service area. Which happens frequently. So back to Bluetooth.

Which just feels like a big step backwards from where I am now.

 

[rbdavis808]

The Kia’s have been solid, trouble free, and fun o drive. I hope I didn’t just jinx us. ROFL

The Amazing Kreskin foresees a new ICCU in your future! (Ioniq5 owner with one ICCU notch on his belt here. Somewhat disturbingly, in one of the recent R2 Utah press drive videos there's an interview with a Rivian engineer bragging on how they consolidated a number of separate charging-related modules from R1 into a single box for R2. Looks like they just built themselves ... an ICCU! Uh-oh. Maybe that's why they stayed 400v, as those lower-voltage EGMP ICCUs don't seem to burn down as often? )

All jesting aside, despite a few things about R2 I do not like (some noted by the OP here, namely sunroof and lack of non-OPD, as well as questionable radio support and no way to play my large old-man audio library via either USB stick or AndroidAuto), there are many more that I do like, and we are looking forward to probably getting one as a complement to our own Korean wonder car.

 

[RivianTrackr]

Call me a Rivian shill, but this post is ridiculous.

 

[BCondrey]

I stopped reading at "lack of CarPlay"...

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