Rivian preparing in-house V2H charger

[docwhiz]

Stand-by generators (like my Generac) automatically run for a few minutes (they call it exercise) once a week to ensure that it's always ready. It also has a status LED that shows green/amber/red on the outside of the housing. This indicates if the generator is ready to run (green), will run but needs attention (amber), or will not run (red). And on the newest units, you get a wireless connection that pairs to a smartphone app that will always show you the status and send you alerts.

Most of the air cooled generators are very simple and need very little maintenance. And oil and filter change once every two years, an air filter change I believe every 3 or 4 years, and two spark plugs and a valve lash adjustment after a certain amount of run hours. It's basically a lawn mower engine. Easy peasy and costs almost nothing to maintain.

What fuel does it use?

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[White Shadow]

What fuel does it use?

Natural gas or propane, it can run on either. Mine is set up to run on NG, so no worries about fuel.

 

[docwhiz]

Natural gas or propane, it can run on either. Mine is set up to run on NG, so no worries about fuel.

That's probably the most reliable. Second behind having your own solar and battery. As long as the NG supply doesn't fail.

 

[Greenwater]

I doubt its that straightforward. NACS is a superset that includes CCS. Compatibility fro bi-directional is unclear.

Yes, on the batteries included podcast they said they doubted the existing systems from ford would ever work with any non-ford vehicles. They said there is no discussion of this at present. At best it is maybe someday this will happen. I am ready to invest in solar and battery storage at my place, I have a rivian and I want a system that will work with the rivian's "coming someday" v2h.

 

[Riviaenz]

The difference between DC in the R1 and AC in the R2 is you need a converter to use the DC output in the R1 but sounds like the R2 will output AC similar to Ford.

Short answer is if you are using 2kWh a day 25 days would be 50 kWh give or take whatever the efficiency loss is.

No way they’re using 2kWh/day. How did someone come up with that number? For context, using only one element on an electric range’s stove or a toaster oven for 1hr consumes nearly that much. Charging your Rivian for 10min on a 11.5kWhr EVSE at home consumes that much. The dry cycle on an electric clothes dryer would consume about 5-6kWhr in an hour.

Just the baseline use by “standby” appliances consumes about 200-500Whr (think refrigerator running 24/7 not counting compressor kicking in, TV on standby to respond to remote, computer in sleep/idle mode, fans, dishwasher waiting for input - who unplugs or has an on/off switch on their digital dishwasher, or washing machine for that matter - air purifier running in the background, etc.

 

[SANZC02]

No way they’re using 2kWh/day. How did someone come up with that number? For context, using only one element on an electric range’s stove or a toaster oven for 1hr consumes nearly that much. Charging your Rivian for 10min on a 11.5kWhr EVSE at home consumes that much. The dry cycle on an electric clothes dryer would consume about 5-6kWhr in an hour.

Just the baseline use by “standby” appliances consumes about 200-500Whr (think refrigerator running 24/7 not counting compressor kicking in, TV on standby to respond to remote, computer in sleep/idle mode, fans, dishwasher waiting for input - who unplugs or has an on/off switch on their digital dishwasher, or washing machine for that matter - air purifier running in the background, etc.

The person saying 2kWh a day was talking about a cabin. Assuming they use propane to cook with and have a super efficient cabin fridge that consume about 65 kW and use all LED lights, you could run on 2kWh a day. It is a different consumption model than a normal residence, especially if it was setup to be fully off grid.

 

[cevans]

That's not real V2H - it's a Tesla implementation where you charge a powerwall and the powerwall supplies power to the house. Ford has a similar proprietary implementation.

This is not accurate and don't know where you're getting this wrong info.

Tesla Powershare powers the home (through their gateway) off the wall connector when there aren't batteries. You can have a battery (Powerwall) as part of this but it isn't required.

 

[cevans]

My EV6 can do V2L and plug into a transfer switch (like one of these - https://naturesgenerator.com/collections/natures-generator-transfer-switch) to power assigned breakers - would this charger need something like this as a go between from the R1 to the house panel? Read the thread but I'm no electrician so dummy speak is appreciated.

Yes, you will need a "go-between".

The issue is that when the grid goes down any power that you connect to your home will back feed the grid. Outside of causing a wide range of problems this primarily puts line workers in danger as they aren't aware that there is power on a line. I believe it is illegal to connect a generator or alternate power source without some sort of control mechanism to prevent this from happening.

The options for a controller to disconnect the power source from backfeeding the grid includes:
* Transfer Switch Subpanel - most common and average cost, this allows some circuits to run off a backup power source. When engaged these circuits will be disconnected from the grid. This can be manual - requiring the user to physically flip a switch - or automatic. Automatic can be "smart" or "dumb", too.
* Whole Home Gateway - most expensive, this automatically disconnects your entire home from the grid when the grid goes down, allowing you to power your whole house off the backup power source.
* Interlock Switch - cheapest but least user friendly, you add a circuit to your home panel which is connected to a generator. The interlock kit prevents the generator circuit from being connected while the main breaker to the grid is connected.

The questions is which of these three Rivian's solution will require. Most backup power systems, including Ford's system, use some sort of smart gateway or subpanel system. They don't allow a "dumb" integration.

 

[patrick49]

Yes, you will need a "go-between".

The issue is that when the grid goes down any power that you connect to your home will back feed the grid. Outside of causing a wide range of problems this primarily puts line workers in danger as they aren't aware that there is power on a line. I believe it is illegal to connect a generator or alternate power source without some sort of control mechanism to prevent this from happening.

The options for a controller to disconnect the power source from backfeeding the grid includes:
* Transfer Switch Subpanel - most common and average cost, this allows some circuits to run off a backup power source. When engaged these circuits will be disconnected from the grid. This can be manual - requiring the user to physically flip a switch - or automatic. Automatic can be "smart" or "dumb", too.
* Whole Home Gateway - most expensive, this automatically disconnects your entire home from the grid when the grid goes down, allowing you to power your whole house off the backup power source.
* Interlock Switch - cheapest but least user friendly, you add a circuit to your home panel which is connected to a generator. The interlock kit prevents the generator circuit from being connected while the main breaker to the grid is connected.

The questions is which of these three Rivian's solution will require. Most backup power systems, including Ford's system, use some sort of smart gateway or subpanel system. They don't allow a "dumb" integration.

Thanks, it wasn't clear to me if the transfer switch or something along those lines was going to be integrated directly within the charger or what.

 

[White Shadow]

No way they’re using 2kWh/day. How did someone come up with that number? For context, using only one element on an electric range’s stove or a toaster oven for 1hr consumes nearly that much. Charging your Rivian for 10min on a 11.5kWhr EVSE at home consumes that much. The dry cycle on an electric clothes dryer would consume about 5-6kWhr in an hour.

Just the baseline use by “standby” appliances consumes about 200-500Whr (think refrigerator running 24/7 not counting compressor kicking in, TV on standby to respond to remote, computer in sleep/idle mode, fans, dishwasher waiting for input - who unplugs or has an on/off switch on their digital dishwasher, or washing machine for that matter - air purifier running in the background, etc.

The average house uses about 11 kWh per year. It's about 30,000 watt hours a day.

 

[cevans]

Thanks, it wasn't clear to me if the transfer switch or something along those lines was going to be integrated directly within the charger or what.

No it will require a separate piece of equipment.

 

[LivingInKaos]

The average house uses about 11 kWh per year. It's about 30,000 watt hours a day.

Check your math.... 30,000= 30k so 30kWh a day is more than the 11kWh you list per year (which is no where near accurate )

 

[emoore]

The average house uses about 11 kWh per year. It's about 30,000 watt hours a day.

You forgot a few zeros after the 11. Should be 11,000 kWh per year.

 

[White Shadow]

Yep. That's what I meant.

 

[Riviaenz]

There are standard systems like Enphase

The average house uses about 11 kWh per year. It's about 30,000 watt hours a day.

Think about the MAGNITUDE of what you’re saying. Put it in the context of your Rivian… how far would you go on 11kWhr PER YEAR?! I’m sure you’re driving more than 20-30 MILES per year. If not then maybe 11kWhr is enough just for your Rivian but not your household annual consumption.

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