Tesla FSD Full Self Driving & Rivian ?

[defcon888]

I would never put my $100k vehicle in the hands of a FSD/Driver+. I have played with it a few times but maybe it is because of my age (60) that I think it is a gimmick. The more you make things easier, the lazier people get and the last thing I want is a lazy person driving a car that is driving for them. No thank you, I will keep my hands on the wheel. I do like cruise control though which something I use all the time on my drive to and from work.

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[Dave Cundiff]

Always looking for ways to make good driving EASIER. Outside temperature sensors, antilock brakes, and adaptive cruise control are three good examples of this.

Not impressed with things that are promoted to make good driving UNNECESSARY. So far, nothing I've seen actually matches an experienced driver's ability to anticipate and avoid trouble.

I'm scared of Rivian's Highway Assist, at least when there's traffic around. I'm even more scared of Tesla's FSD, whose greater sophistication isn't yet backed up with "fail safe" when it fails. Running into a concrete divider at highway speed, because the computer misjudged a visible situation, is NOT my idea of a good day....

 

[Rivian Head]

I would never put my $100k vehicle in the hands of a FSD/Driver+. I have played with it a few times but maybe it is because of my age (60) that I think it is a gimmick. The more you make things easier, the lazier people get and the last thing I want is a lazy person driving a car that is driving for them. No thank you, I will keep my hands on the wheel. I do like cruise control though which something I use all the time on my drive to and from work.

If I pay $100,000 for a car, I want to have every option available. It would allow me to drive like a maniac, coddle me in luxury, or drive me home when I am drunk. I can be lazy or hyper vigilant, and a luxury vehicle will not be luxury unless it has autonomous options. This is the future I see, and Rivian better get in it soon.

 

[AnnetteHons702]

I will put my money on Ford being the first to get licensing for the FSD software. Ford was the first to get access to the Tesla charging system. Personally I think it would be GREAT!

 

[SwampNut]

I love conversations about $100k computers on wheels full of luddites. Hilarious. Meanwhile I've got tens of thousands of miles of well understanding Tesla's AP and realizing it's perfectly capable of doing 98% of driving.

 

[Dave Cundiff]

I love conversations about $100k computers on wheels full of luddites. Hilarious. Meanwhile I've got tens of thousands of miles of well understanding Tesla's AP and realizing it's perfectly capable of doing 98% of driving.

We always knew that hospital janitors could safely attend 90% of the deliveries. Obstetricians were only needed for the other 10%. The problem was that we couldn't tell which 10% that was....

Best wishes!

 

[Rivian Head]

I love conversations about $100k computers on wheels full of luddites. Hilarious. Meanwhile I've got tens of thousands of miles of well understanding Tesla's AP and realizing it's perfectly capable of doing 98% of driving.

I doubt these Luddites have intelligence to know who the Luddites are

 

[Mark_AZR1T]

I think if Rivian had it's own internally developed FSD and it functioned like the latest release of the Tesla, FSD, most people would be raving about it. Not because it's perfect, rather that Rivian was leading in the development of a system, not just barely having a functioning lane assist sotware.....

I know many will say not me, but the fact remains, we have cruise control with limited lane assist.....nothing more.

 

[zymolysis]

My experience with FSD. Highway splits into two different highways (in a Y shape). Car starts going down the right path, gets confused, starts violently switching back and forth between lanes before disengaging while heading straight towards the barrier dividing the two roads. Happens every time at this location.

Its a LONG ways away from anything without a driver which is why the robotaxi announcement is nothing more than stock manipulation for dumb people who are easily conned.

Which version of FSD? Totally meaningless anecdote without the version.

 

[defcon888]

I love conversations about $100k computers on wheels full of luddites. Hilarious. Meanwhile I've got tens of thousands of miles of well understanding Tesla's AP and realizing it's perfectly capable of doing 98% of driving.

I am not opposed to it. I think the technology is great for others, just not for me. I am not a luddite at all, but I know myself better than a computer, besides, I really enjoy driving my R1T...its fun....I don't want a computer taking that away from me.

 

[SwampNut]

Which version of FSD? Totally meaningless anecdote without the version.

He's talking about the old stack that drove AP, and my car would have a problem with one specific location like that. It would eventually correct. Again, it's fully predictable, and in 25k miles of driving, it just didn't do anything crazy. It did things WRONG in places where I could see that it was going to have a problem. It's easy and obvious to control.

 

[Sgt Beavis]

If I'm an exec at one of these auto OEM's, I'd seriously question the mental stability of Tesla's leadership. That questioning would make me seriously consider not attaching my company to Tesla in any way.

 

[NDIrish]

Then was mention in Tesla's earnings call yesterday that they are in talks with another car manufacture about licensing their full self driving software. I wonder if Rivian may be that manufacture. Driver+ seems to be way behind others, and I would expect they could more easily make the necessary hardware changes.

Faster Path to Market:

• Reduced Development Time: Leveraging Tesla's existing FSD system would save Rivian years of development on their Driver+ assistant. This allows Rivian to offer a more competitive product sooner.
• Improved Feature Set: Tesla's FSD is constantly evolving, offering features like lane-changing and traffic light recognition. Licensing FSD would instantly upgrade Rivian's Driver+ capabilities.

Addressing a Potential Customer Need:

• Market Demand: While Rivian hasn't prioritize self-driving, some customers might desire it, especially when Tesla officially rolls it out. FSD could attract a wider audience seeking advanced driver-assistance features.
• Competitive Landscape: Tesla is a leader in self-driving technology. Offering a comparable system would help Rivian compete more effectively.

Focus on Core Strengths:

• Frees Up Resources: By using FSD, Rivian's engineering team could focus on core vehicle development and differentiation, like Rivian's off-road focus.
• Faster Iteration: Licensing avoids the need for a complete in-house solution, allowing Rivian to adapt and improve Driver+ features more quickly based on Tesla's updates.

However, there are also potential drawbacks to consider:

• Cost: Licensing FSD might be expensive, impacting Rivian's profit margins.
• Integration Challenges: Integrating Tesla's software with Rivian's hardware and systems could be complex and time-consuming.
• Strategic Dependence: Rivian would become reliant on Tesla's roadmap for future advancements in self-driving technology.

Ultimately, the decision depends on Rivian's long-term vision. If self-driving becomes a priority (or a competitive requirement), licensing FSD could be a strategic move. But if Rivian prioritizes differentiation and driver engagement, focusing on in-house development of Driver+ might be their choice (... and we are in for a long wait).

Thoughts?

If they didn't farm out their maps or entertainment and offer carplay or android auto, I doubt they'd farm out FSD. There is just too much to lose giving up that native software and relying on others and giving up the recurring revenue stream after purchase.

 

[RivianRunner]

If I'm an exec at one of these auto OEM's, I'd seriously question the mental stability of Tesla's leadership. That questioning would make me seriously consider not attaching my company to Tesla in any way.

Well, GM doesn't have time for Tesla, their heart lies with a real company, Nikola.

 

[RivianRunner]

If they didn't farm out their maps or entertainment and offer carplay or android auto, I doubt they'd farm out FSD. There is just too much to lose giving up that native software and relying on others and giving up the recurring revenue stream after purchase.

Yeah, but which legacy OEM has the billions of dollars worth of compute that will allow them to even keep their head above water? And where will they get the billions of miles of real world driving data?

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